(M.H-8)Nontrinitarianism

DevotiontoBible · #71 15th June 2006, 02:24 PM

Originally Posted by GeorgeE

God is a spirit not a person; all you are showing me is no matter what you clearly beleive that some how The God of all things is three persons. (Show me 3 persons)

Yes "all Christians will lose their distinct personal identities" but what does that have to do with the trinity doctrine. We are talking God being a person. Show me where it refers to God being a person; He is "one" and he is a "Spirit".

Gen 1:26 clearly shows God is a plurality of persons. It is of no matter that you say it doesn't.

You are not making any sense to say that Christians lose their distinct personal identities.

Trigger · #72 15th June 2006, 09:59 PM

If you have one cup of red jell-o, one cup of blue jell-o, and one cup of green jell-o, are they not all jell-o?

Harlin · #73 16th June 2006, 04:12 AM

Originally Posted by DevotiontoBible

Gen 1:26 clearly shows God is a plurality of persons. It is of no matter that you say it doesn't.

You are not making any sense to say that Christians lose their distinct personal identities.

Hello,

Genesis 1:26 shows that there is more than one being that goes by the name of "God", it does not however show a trinity in any way.

God, (the Father) was talking to His Son, who has also inherited the name of God by virtue of His "coming forth" or being "begotten" from His Father.

Jesus is the express image of His Fathers person, He is the image of God in every way, He has all the attributes of His Father, naturally by inheritance, we are made in their image, after their likeness. We are not the "express" image however.

To say that not being a trinitarian is heretical is only mans opinion, Jesus never said that, it is not in the Bible anywhere. What He did say however is this:

"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent" John 17:3

I don't see any neccessity for believing in the trinity to obtain eternal life, I only see knowing God and believing in the name of His Son.

God Bless,

Harlin

jpr7 · #74 16th June 2006, 05:49 AM

Originally Posted by DevotiontoBible

Gen 1:26 clearly shows God is a plurality of persons. It is of no matter that you say it doesn't.

You are not making any sense to say that Christians lose their distinct personal identities.

It's still up in arms as to whether this means a plurality of persons or a plurality of majesty or intensity.

2ducklow · #75 16th June 2006, 10:29 AM

Originally Posted by jpr7

It's still up in arms as to whether this means a plurality of persons or a plurality of majesty or intensity.

You are forgeting a 3rd possiblity. That our refers to God and others who are not God yet have the same image as He. Jesus is the image of the invisible God. We are being conformed to the Image of Jesus.

Romans 8:29. For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren.

We have the image of Jesus.

Col. 1:15. Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:

Jesus has the image of the invisible God. therefore we all have the same image as stated in gen. 1.26. Where else in the bible is anyone other than us (God, Jesus, the saints) ever said to have the image of God? I'll give you the answer, No one.

therefore we all have the same image. therefore God could say Us or our in reference to all of us.
you are forgeting the possiblity that gen. 1.26 is prophecy.
you are forgeting the possiblity that gen. 1.26 is a figure of speech called an apostrophe such as in isa 45.1 and ps. 2.7
Isaiah 45
1. Thus saith the Lord to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him;

cyrus hadn't even been born when Isaiah made this prophecy and god spoke to him and even named him.

or

Ps 2:
7. I will declare the decree: the Lord hath said unto me, Thou art my son; this day have I begotten thee.

God spoke to Jesus before Jesus was even born and said this day have I begotten thee, when God had not begotten Jesus that day.

So it is an established principle from scriputre that sometimes God makes prophecys by speaking to people that are not there such as cyrus or Jesus. This possibility you have not considered.

b*unique · #76 16th June 2006, 11:29 AM

Mod hat on

Please do look at those rules:

2.1 No Flaming

You will not "flame" other members or groups of members. Flaming includes, but is not limited to:
Ridiculing, insulting, or demeaning another member or group of members; Stating or implying that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christian; Using sarcasm to attempt any of the above; Threats of any sort.

2.2 No Baiting

You will not bait other members. "Baiting" is an attempt to anger another member. Baiting includes, but is not limited to:
Making comments designed to elicit responses that violate the rules; Asking "loaded" questions of another member in an attempt to disguise a flame; Ridiculing or insulting the beliefs of another member.

Thank you

Mod hat off

Chemnitz · #77 16th June 2006, 11:59 AM

Originally Posted by b*unique

Mod hat on

Please do look at those rules:

2.1 No Flaming

You will not "flame" other members or groups of members. Flaming includes, but is not limited to:
Ridiculing, insulting, or demeaning another member or group of members; Stating or implying that another member or group of members who have identified themselves as Christian are not Christian; Using sarcasm to attempt any of the above; Threats of any sort.

2.2 No Baiting

You will not bait other members. "Baiting" is an attempt to anger another member. Baiting includes, but is not limited to:
Making comments designed to elicit responses that violate the rules; Asking "loaded" questions of another member in an attempt to disguise a flame; Ridiculing or insulting the beliefs of another member.

Thank you

Mod hat off

But hasn't CF itself more or less determined that non-trinitarianism isn't Christian when it was decided not to let them post in the "Christians Only" section?

2ducklow · #78 16th June 2006, 01:32 PM

Originally Posted by Chemnitz

But hasn't CF itself more or less determined that non-trinitarianism isn't Christian when it was decided not to let them post in the "Christians Only" section?

It's kinda like someone inviting a married couple into their home and telling the wife of that guest that she cannot refer to herself by her husbands last name. I think in that instance most people would feel insulted somewhat. But I've gone to churches before where I had to subjegate my beliefs because they were in conflict with the doctrines and practices of the particular church. We are to obey those who have authority over us even if they are wrong, unless it violates our conscience, such as the extreme example of say a pastor telling us all to drink poison laced cool aid.
It would seem that since the admoniton to obey those rules was posted immediately after my post that it was meant primarily as a warning for me. However, if that admonition is meant to apply to something I have said, I can't see how.

GeorgeE · #79 16th June 2006, 05:25 PM

A person according to Webster’s dictionary is a human Individual; Also a personality of a human being self see reference 5. Also dully noted Webster defines a person as part o the trinity in reference 5.

Webster is pretty right on with definitions; from an earthy view point; but I must disagree with 98% of Christianity. Mr. Webster has a right to define the Godhead this way because the dictionary is just definition established traditions and human religious doctrine ; not a spiritual reality.

Main Entry: per·son
Pronunciation: 'p&r-s&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French persone, from Latin persona actor's mask, character in a play, person, probably from Etruscan phersu mask, from Greek prosOpa, plural of prosOpon face, mask -- more at PROSOPOPOEIA
1 : HUMAN, INDIVIDUAL -- sometimes used in combination especially by those who prefer to avoid man in compounds applicable to both sexes <chairperson> <spokesperson>
2 : a character or part in or as if in a play : GUISE
3 a : one of the three modes of being in the Trinitarian Godhead as understood by Christians b : the unitary personality of Christ that unites the divine and human natures
4 a archaic : bodily appearance b : the body of a human being; also : the body and clothing <unlawful search of the person>
5 : the personality of a human being : SELF
6 : one (as a human being, a partnership, or a corporation) that is recognized by law as the subject of rights and duties
7 : reference of a segment of discourse to the speaker, to one spoken to, or to one spoken of as indicated by means of certain pronouns or in many languages by verb inflection
- per·son·hood /-"hud/ noun
- in person : in one's bodily presence

DevotiontoBible · #80 16th June 2006, 06:17 PM

Originally Posted by GeorgeE

A person according to Webster’s dictionary is a human Individual; Also a personality of a human being self see reference 5. Also dully noted Webster defines a person as part o the trinity in reference 5.

Webster is pretty right on with definitions; from an earthy view point; but I must disagree with 98% of Christianity. Mr. Webster has a right to define the Godhead this way because the dictionary is just definition established traditions and human religious doctrine ; not a spiritual reality.

Main Entry: per·son
Pronunciation: 'p&r-s&n
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Old French persone, from Latin persona actor's mask, character in a play, person, probably from Etruscan phersu mask, from Greek prosOpa, plural of prosOpon face, mask -- more at PROSOPOPOEIA
1 : HUMAN, INDIVIDUAL -- sometimes used in combination especially by those who prefer to avoid man in compounds applicable to both sexes <chairperson> <spokesperson>
2 : a character or part in or as if in a play : GUISE
3 a : one of the three modes of being in the Trinitarian Godhead as understood by Christians b : the unitary personality of Christ that unites the divine and human natures
4 a archaic : bodily appearance b : the body of a human being; also : the body and clothing <unlawful search of the person>
5 : the personality of a human being : SELF
6 : one (as a human being, a partnership, or a corporation) that is recognized by law as the subject of rights and duties
7 : reference of a segment of discourse to the speaker, to one spoken to, or to one spoken of as indicated by means of certain pronouns or in many languages by verb inflection
- per·son·hood /-"hud/ noun
- in person : in one's bodily presence

Kinda shot yourself in the foot on that one