(M.H-8)Nontrinitarianism

One God.

The difficulty with understanding this arises in the miosconceived notion that there is one God per person in the Godhead. Echad (one) in Deuteronomy 6:4 is a compound unity used to describe the family unit in:

Genesis 2:24 Therefore shall a man leave his father and his mother, and shall cleave unto his wife: and they shall be [ONE] [echad] flesh.



From the very scriptures I have already shown you. Please read them again and again until you realize that they refer to the various persons in the unity of the Godhead. Each has personality, understanding, individuality which I already proved with scripture shows their distinction one from another. Each has feeling, each has thought, all the traits of personhood.

Your problem, George, is that you bought into an argument that doesn't square with scripture. And if you think it through, the angels have personhood and are spirits, so why would God not have personhood? I mean other than the teaching of those who want to impose their false beliefs on scripture that apparently made you think their argument was valid if not logical...



Jesus is the Son of the Father.


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Actually the Hebrew reads "Father of eternity"... and to be the father of something is to be the creator of it or the first one to do something. Refer to:

John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

Here's a tid bit I'll bet you didn't know.

The Heavenly Father did not create creation. God the Word (John 1:1) who became flesh (John 1:14) did.

Colossians 1:16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

John 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

Isaiah 44:24 Thus saith the LORD, thy redeemer, and he that formed thee from the womb, I am the LORD that maketh all things; that stretcheth forth the heavens alone; that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;

The Father did create the body of Jesus:

Hebrews 10:5 Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me: 6 In burnt offerings and sacrifices for sin thou hast had no pleasure. 7 Then said I, Lo, I come (in the volume of the book it is written of me,) to do thy will, O God.

The doctrine of the Trinity was not something man set out to impose upon the Bible. It was gleaned from the Bible when the full revelation was canonized... comparing scripture with scripture. The conclusion being that God is a compound unity of three persons Father, Son, and Holy Spirit.

Again, reread the Bible texts I quoted in this thread.

The name for this plurality in Gen 1:26-27 is ELOHIM (GOD) which was used quite often in the Bible. Here are a few examples.

This brings us immediately to Psalm 82:6-7, "I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. ""Ye are gods (elohim).." Elohim is a plural word for gods, as well as referring to Him as the Head of this God-family. God is "the Father of spirits . . . "

[Hebrews 12:9], and because they are out of Himself, they are also rightly called gods, or, elohim. But because, in His mystery-purpose, He has caused them to lack, to be lowered from this realm, man is no longer able to bear the yoke of divinity, nor live out the fullness of this righteous state, and so we "die like men", literally, like Adam, who was the one by whom "sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned."

[Romans 5:12]. Yet even when He turned man to this bruising, He did so with the inherent command, "return, ye children of men," [Psalm 90:3] knowing full well that He had purposed a FULL RETURN once this mystery had been consummated.

Briefly, we note a few other Old Testament references using the word "elohim" in its plural sense for "gods."

Zechariah 12:8, "And he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David as elohim, as the angel of the Lord before them. " What an in working of the power and grace of God, so that the weak ones become strong, but they who have already been developed and matured and made strong will be as ELOHIM - as gods.

Psalm 138:1, "I will praise Thee with my whole heart; before the gods (elohim) will I sing praise unto Thee."

Psalm 136:2, "O give thanks unto the God of gods."
HE is above all, that "in all He might have pre-eminence." [Colossians 1:18]. "Yet He, Jesus Christ, is the Firstborn among many brethren." [Romans 8 : 29]. "For both He that sanctifieth and they who are sanctified are all of one: for which cause He is not ashamed to call them brethren." [Hebrews 2:11]. The brethren are to be "AS HE IS so are we in this world." [1 John 4:17]. Hence the verses multiply in convincing evidence that He is bringing forth after His own kind - His elohlm, His gods. The mystery of God, while it is all encompassing of His purpose, can also be identified as bringing forth gods, in His image, after His likeness, partakers of His divine nature.

The Jews took up stones to stone Him, and Jesus asked them, "Many good works have I shewed you from My Father; for which of those works do ye stone Me? The Jews answered Him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy and because that Thou, being a man, makest thyself God. Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If He called them gods unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken; say ye of Him, whom the Father hath sanctified and sent into the world, Thou blasphemest; because I said I am the Son of God."

[John 10:32-36].
There are some significant points which Jesus brings out, in His reference to the declaration of the Psalmist, "ye are gods . . . " and we especially note the statement "He call them gods, unto whom the word of God came." Certainly! Because when His Word comes to us, and we receive it, it is HIS SEED for the producing of His new creation species, thus we are "Being born again, not of corruptible seed, but of incorruptible, BY THE WORD OF GOD, which liveth and abideth for ever." [1 Peter 1:23]. The life is in the seed, and it is HIS LIFE, to bear after His kind, so obviously He calls them gods

Ray Prinzing

None of it proves to me that the Holy Spirit is a person. The Holy Spirit is the power of God.

This is a whole lot of nothing. All you have done is confirm that "Elohim" is plural. You have not addressed the issue that I used to prove you wrong and that is God reveals Himself as a plurality of persons as shown in Gen 1:26. You are wrong to say the idea of a Godhead being three distinct persons is a made up idea by theologians. There is the idea clearly shown to us in Gen 1:26.

The word godhead is man made and the word person is man made; God is one.

The Scriptures, like Gen 1:26, clearly show a Godhead made up of a plurality of persons. Just because you don't like those words the Scriptures still teach the concept.

The saying "God is one" does not mean God is not more than one person. When Jesus prayed "that they may be one" Jn 17:11 did not mean that all Christians will lose their distinct personal identities.

Jesus was convinced The Holy Spirit was a person because He repeatedly referred to The Holy Spirit in the masculine personal pronoun he. See John 16. Since Jesus was convinced The Holy Spirit was a person shouldn't you too?

Anything Spiritual is masculine; anything soulish is the feminine. The Church, the bride, the harlot

God is always masculine.

Manchild Masculine.

So where is this person or three persons?

The word godhead is man made and the word person is man made; God is one.

God is a spirit not a person

Yes "all Christians will lose their distinct personal identities"