| Unorthodox Theology A forum to discuss/debate theological doctrines not accepted by mainstream evangelical Christianity (eg. Full Preterism, Unitarianism)
Orthodox* and Unorthodox members welcome |
 | | 
21st June 2006, 12:09 AM
| | Regular Member
34   
| | Join Date: 3rd November 2005
Posts: 402
Blessings: 91,234
Reps: 253 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by DevotiontoBible Wrong. The Son's begottenness is preceded in Scripture by the predicate para in Jn 1:14 (the Word is the only begotten from the Father). indicating a sharing of the same eternal nature as God.
Hello,
yes, this does indicate that the Son came from the Father, it is not just indicating the sharing of eternal nature. Jesus has the very nature of God because He came from God. He was begotten (past tense), before the incarnation. He is not part of the same being though.
God had to have a Son to give.
God Bless,
Harlin |
21st June 2006, 11:41 AM
| | Contributor
49    
 | | Join Date: 31st August 2005
Posts: 6,165
Blessings: 100,239
Reps: 18,726 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Harlin Hello,
yes, this does indicate that the Son came from the Father, it is not just indicating the sharing of eternal nature. Jesus has the very nature of God because He came from God. He was begotten (past tense), before the incarnation. He is not part of the same being though.
God had to have a Son to give.
God Bless,
Harlin
Are you suggesting that I may be implying Modalism by your comment that "He is not part of the same being"? Of course, Christ is distinguished from the Father but He shares the same eternal nature as God the Father. The Son proceeds from the Father expresses His economic subordination to the Father is a better way to state what the term "begotten" means. It is a term of primacy of relationship not primacy of time. The Son has always existed as the Word yet He has proceeded from the Father, not the Father from the Son. Does this explain what I meant? |
21st June 2006, 01:18 PM
|  | Legend
29  
| | Join Date: 23rd October 2004 Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 12,080
Blessings: 1,083,666
Reps: 22,093,396,603,335,756 (power: 22,093,396,603,355) | | Originally Posted by DevotiontoBible Are you suggesting that I may be implying Modalism by your comment that "He is not part of the same being"? Of course, Christ is distinguished from the Father but He shares the same eternal nature as God the Father. The Son proceeds from the Father expresses His economic subordination to the Father is a better way to state what the term "begotten" means. It is a term of primacy of relationship not primacy of time. The Son has always existed as the Word yet He has proceeded from the Father, not the Father from the Son. Does this explain what I meant?
Would that be the same or similar to if we were to consider ourselves one with adam? |
21st June 2006, 06:08 PM
| | Junior Member
 
| | Join Date: 11th June 2006
Posts: 204
Blessings: 1,069,505
Reps: 22,998,968,944,494 (power: 22,998,968,950) | | Originally Posted by Harlin Hello,
yes, this does indicate that the Son came from the Father, it is not just indicating the sharing of eternal nature. Jesus has the very nature of God because He came from God. He was begotten (past tense), before the incarnation. He is not part of the same being though.
God had to have a Son to give.
God Bless,
Harlin
Hello Harlin,
Which Scriptures do you believe support a begetting before the incarnation? |
21st June 2006, 06:42 PM
| | Junior Member
| | Join Date: 13th June 2006
Posts: 38
Blessings: 90,245
Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by jpr7 Hello Harlin,
Which Scriptures do you believe support a begetting before the incarnation?
Nicene Creed
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven Eternally begotten of the Father, ETERNALLY must mean something different that just begotten, and the rest in red I don't know how it can be misread. |
21st June 2006, 06:46 PM
| | Junior Member
| | Join Date: 11th June 2006
Posts: 204
Blessings: 1,069,505
Reps: 22,998,968,944,494 (power: 22,998,968,950) | | Originally Posted by heleadsme Nicene Creed
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven
Eternally begotten of the Father, ETERNALLY must mean something different that just begotten, and the rest in red I don't know how it can be misread.
My friend,
I wouldn't consider creeds to be at the level of inspired Scripture.  |
21st June 2006, 07:03 PM
| | Junior Member
| | Join Date: 13th June 2006
Posts: 38
Blessings: 90,245
Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by jpr7 My friend,
I wouldn't consider creeds to be at the level of inspired Scripture.  You are right. And that tells me something about Scripture. I am not sure what but it all ties in one way or another. |
21st June 2006, 07:10 PM
|  | noob
32
| | Join Date: 7th February 2006
Posts: 1,294
Blessings: 69,296
Reps: 1,396 (power: 9) | | Originally Posted by heleadsme Nicene Creed
We believe in one God, the Father, the Almighty, maker of heaven and earth, of all that is, seen and unseen. We believe in one Lord, Jesus Christ, the only son of God, eternally begotten of the Father, God from God, Light from Light, true God from true God, begotten, not made, of one being with the Father. Through him all things were made. For us and for our salvation he came down from heaven: by the power of the Holy Spirit he became incarnate from the Virgin Mary, and was made man. For our sake he was crucified under Pontius Pilate; he suffered death and was buried. On the third day he rose again in accordance with the Scriptures; he ascended into heaven
Eternally begotten of the Father, ETERNALLY must mean something different that just begotten, and the rest in red I don't know how it can be misread.
hello,
The nicene creed came into existence in 325 AD, nearly 300 years after the death of Jesus Christ. Find the phrases "eternally begotten" or "begotton, not made" or "of one being" in the Bible.
In the meantime, reflect what the Bible does say: That Jesus was created by God; That Jesus received all power and authority from God; and that Jesus is eternaly subordinate to God. The early Christians believed that Jesus and The Father were the same kind of being with Christ subordinate to the Father, not the same being. Only after Augustine was the notion of subordinationism wiped out.
[bible]Revelation 3:14[/bible]
[bible]Colossians 1:14-15[/bible]
[bible]Acts 2:36[/bible]
[bible]Revelation 5:12[/bible]
[bible]1 Corinthians 15:27-28[/bible]
Last edited by jeffC; 21st June 2006 at 07:19 PM.
|
21st June 2006, 07:19 PM
| | Junior Member
| | Join Date: 11th June 2006
Posts: 204
Blessings: 1,069,505
Reps: 22,998,968,944,494 (power: 22,998,968,950) | | Originally Posted by heleadsme You are right. And that tells me something about Scripture. I am not sure what but it all ties in one way or another.
The Nicene creed is at least a full century removed from the early church. That tells me something about creeds. On a serious note, I'm trying to examine Scripture as the apostles themselves penned it and understood it (to the best of my ability). |
21st June 2006, 07:24 PM
| | Junior Member
| | Join Date: 13th June 2006
Posts: 38
Blessings: 90,245
Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by jpr7 The Nicene creed is at least a full century removed from the early church. That tells me something about creeds. On a serious note, I'm trying to examine Scripture as the apostles themselves penned it and understood it (to the best of my ability).
okedoke......what I am wondering doesn't fit it, so carry on. | | |
| Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode |
| | |
