Unorthodox TheologyA forum to discuss/debate theological doctrines not accepted by mainstream evangelical Christianity (eg. Full Preterism, Unitarianism)
Usually, those who deny Trinitarian theology deny the full deity of Jesus as being the same as the full deity of the Father. Therefore, they do not have the Father.
I think it would be more accurate to say that many who deny the Trinity deny the full deity of Jesus. I for one do believe that Jesus was True God and True Man. I do want to point out, however, that Jesus did say:
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
This does seem to show that the Son is not coequal with the Father (although still coeternal). But this also points toward God being a family (of TWO beings), as I have mentioned before. But it does NOT take away from the fact that Jesus is God (though not the Father as some non-Trinitarians claim).
__________________ Acts 24:14-15 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust...
Genesis 1:26 says nothing about God being 3 persons or a trinity; it is speaking of Elohim which is one of the many names of God. God’s names speak of His nature not persons or personality; or another way of putting person is carnal man. God’s names or natures are Devine not earthly; they are spiritual. I know you love really believe God is three persons which is the same thing as a three men or 3 carnal men.
It does not say that the one God is all one substance.
God is a plurality of persons, working for the same will.
Hello,
Where may I ask does Gen 1:26 show that the Holy Spirit is a third person/god in the Godhead, trinity,or whatever...etc.? I see only the Father, God, talking to His Son who is also God because He came from the Father. Where is the trinity?
John 14:28 Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
I believe here Jesus is referring to himself as a human being. In his time on earth, Jesus gave up his "divine" status to become a human, so that he could be a perfect example of how the man-God relationship is supposed to work. When he says "my Father is greater than I", he means as a man.
Where may I ask does Gen 1:26 show that the Holy Spirit is a third person/god in the Godhead, trinity,or whatever...etc.? I see only the Father, God, talking to His Son who is also God because He came from the Father. Where is the trinity?
God Bless,
harlin
I should of address this to DevotiontotheBible at thread # 62. It has been debate at other timess.
I believe here Jesus is referring to himself as a human being. In his time on earth, Jesus gave up his "divine" status to become a human, so that he could be a perfect example of how the man-God relationship is supposed to work. When he says "my Father is greater than I", he means as a man.
Right on; Jesus always did his Fathers will; as an example we should follow
I believe here Jesus is referring to himself as a human being. In his time on earth, Jesus gave up his "divine" status to become a human, so that he could be a perfect example of how the man-God relationship is supposed to work. When he says "my Father is greater than I", he means as a man.
I agree with that. And the following verse goes along with it:
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Another passage that some people interpret to mean that Jesus isn't God is this one:
Mar 10:17 - 18 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
But it can also be explained by the fact that Jesus was True Man at that point. He had to be a man so that he could be tempted and suffer as would any other man. But yet he was still True God, because - as I believe - He would have had to be God in order that his self-sacrifice cover everyone that lives, has ever lived, or will live. As the creator of all mankind (as Jesus was the Word by which all things were created), the value of his life was the same as the sum total of all humans (and of all that he created for that matter). However, if he was only a man, his life would have only had the value of one other person.
I hope I am making sense...
__________________ Acts 24:14-15 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy, so worship I the God of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets: And have hope toward God, which they themselves also allow, that there shall be a resurrection of the dead, both of the just and unjust...
I agree with that. And the following verse goes along with it:
Heb 2:9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
Another passage that some people interpret to mean that Jesus isn't God is this one:
Mar 10:17 - 18 And when he was gone forth into the way, there came one running, and kneeled to him, and asked him, Good Master, what shall I do that I may inherit eternal life?
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God.
But it can also be explained by the fact that Jesus was True Man at that point. He had to be a man so that he could be tempted and suffer as would any other man. But yet he was still True God, because - as I believe - He would have had to be God in order that his self-sacrifice cover everyone that lives, has ever lived, or will live. As the creator of all mankind (as Jesus was the Word by which all things were created), the value of his life was the same as the sum total of all humans (and of all that he created for that matter). However, if he was only a man, his life would have only had the value of one other person.
I hope I am making sense...
Yes Jesus was a man; but at the same time he was God manifested in the flesh.
Genesis 1:26 says nothing about God being 3 persons or a trinity; it is speaking of Elohim which is one of the many names of God. God’s names speak of His nature not persons or personality; or another way of putting person is carnal man. God’s names or natures are Devine not earthly; they are spiritual. I know you love really believe God is three persons which is the same thing as a three men or 3 carnal men.
I learned in 1st grade reading that plural personal pronouns "us", "our" refer to the main subject "God". Therefore, God is a plurality of persons. Too bad you want to throw out your 1st grade reading lessons.
No, my Church teaches Henotheism. I only believe in one God. Though the bible teaches the existence of gods.
Psalms 82:6-7 I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you children of the most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes.
^ That is Jehovah speaking.
... Genesis 3:5; For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then your eyes shall be opened, and ye shall be as gods, knowing good and evil.
NO, the gods referred to in Psalm 82 are not God. The context referes to the judges who represented God. They were not always existing, eternal, creators, all powerful, all knowing, all present gods to be worshiped. Jesus was not saying these referred to are divine. Ex 21:6; 22:9, 28 also show the word elohim was used of judges not of gods. You have to take in the context of how a word is used in order to define the word.
Gen 3:5 is a lie from the serpent, Adam and Eve did not become as God when they sinned. You are believing the same lie if you listen to the devil on that.
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