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Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.

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  #1  
Old 20th December 2002, 08:50 PM
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Do evolutionists silence the critics?

Do "evolutionary scientists" (for lack of a better term) silence or censure critics of evolutionary theory? If so, how? And, why does this not happen in other fields of study (or does it)?
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  #2  
Old 21st December 2002, 12:28 PM
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Do "evolutionary scientists" (for lack of a better term) silence or censure critics of evolutionary theory?
Yes.

If so, how?
Many ways. No one is suggesting a conspiracy because one is not needed. Lack of funding, rejection of a paper going through peer-review, and refusal to publish are all ways in which silencing can occur. Also, journalists can publish articles full of nonsense, and Scientific American can publish it's list of "10 common creationist mistakes". (a straw man article) Much of this results from perception (that is where the straw men come from) and some is organizational inertia, some is people using poor arguments (often popularizers) and the rest is based on the evolutionary scientist's personal experiences.

And, why does this not happen in other fields of study (or does it)?
It does. Research into continental drift prior to the 1960's, sun-centered solar system, oxygen instead of phlogiston...
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Old 21st December 2002, 01:48 PM
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Hmm. Can you offer me a reason to believe that papers are failing peer-review because they're opposed to someone's pet theory, rather than because they're not very good papers?

The creationist papers I've read have always had *painfully* obvious, glaring, errors in their basic mathematics or logic, or simply false statements.
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Old 21st December 2002, 01:54 PM
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If a paper fails peer review, does that not tell you something.
I mean, if you didn't make the cut for the basketball team do you say "I wasn't up to the standard", or "They are out to get me"?
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Old 21st December 2002, 07:50 PM
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In one of the big Evo/Creation court cases (I believe the one over a teacher's dismissal for teaching Creationism), a creationist witness from one of the bigger Creationist groups (ICR or AIG) tried to claim they were constantly refused publication.

So the prosecuter asked how many papers they'd had submitted, to what journals, and the reasons given. The witness couldn't remember. The judge asked that the groups in question file the requested information.

They didn't. They hadn't actually submitted a paper, ever. (I can think of one Creationist paper that got published, offhand. Gentry's Po Halo work. Wasn't such a mystery, however).

It's amazing how seldom you get published, when you don't submit a paper.
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Old 21st December 2002, 10:58 PM
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If a paper fails peer review, does that not tell you something.
I mean, if you didn't make the cut for the basketball team do you say "I wasn't up to the standard", or "They are out to get me"?
Depends on how grown up you are. Creationism is still in its adolescence in America - and a rocky one at that.
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Old 22nd December 2002, 11:33 AM
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Originally posted by Matthew Many ways. No one is suggesting a conspiracy because one is not needed. Lack of funding, rejection of a paper going through peer-review, and refusal to publish are all ways in which silencing can occur.

NIH lists all grants that are submitted.  Do you see any grants submitted on ID or creationism?  How can they be rejected if they are not submitted?  The same applies for peer-reviewed papers. Although Gentry's papers on radiohaloes were published in Science, weren't they?  When creation "scientists" were asked in the 1982 trial to produce rejection notices of peer-reviewed papers, they couldn't.

Dembski has stated that he doesn't do peer-reviewed work. Why? Because they don't pay royalties.  He gets royalties from his books, after all.

It does. Research into continental drift prior to the 1960's, sun-centered solar system, oxygen instead of phlogiston... 

The first -- continental drift -- is simply untrue.  A minority of geologists continued to do research and publish on plate tectonics from the time the theory was first proposed. 

The second -- sun centered solar system -- is because there is nothing new to publish.  It is already well-established that the sun is the center of the solar system.  Journals are for new findings, not continued support of already well-supported findings. That is a reason why transitional series of fossils aren't published; they are no longer new.

The last isn't published because the theory of phlogiston has been falsified.  It is false.  Therefore, what is there to publish about it? 
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Old 22nd December 2002, 01:22 PM
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actually, there is a lot of evidence for continental drift...

and how can you be so absolutely certain that the sun is the center of the solar system? it's only got so much evidence for it, but there's always a few small problems with the theory...
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Old 23rd December 2002, 03:27 PM
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[q]If so, how?[/q]Sadly, because Satan snares those who are convinced. Satan is involved especially in Evolution "scientists," much more in other areas, because those other areas are closer to true science (observable, repeatable facts).
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Old 23rd December 2002, 03:32 PM
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Originally posted by Athlon4all
[q]If so, how?[/q]Sadly, because Satan snares those who are convinced. Satan is involved especially in Evolution "scientists," much more in other areas, because those other areas are closer to true science (observable, repeatable facts).
Do you know that almost all scientists are Christians even the ones that are in the field of evolution?
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