amillennialism?

inhisdebt · #31 10th June 2006, 01:05 PM

Originally Posted by Dave Taylor

Inhisdebt,
The maps in the back of your bible are not as trustworthy as the words written within the scriptures themselves.

Consider trusting these words....

Joshua 21:43 "And the LORD gave unto Israel all the land which he sware to give unto their fathers; and they possessed it, and dwelt therein. And the LORD gave them rest round about, according to all that he sware unto their fathers: and there stood not a man of all their enemies before them; the LORD delivered all their enemies into their hand. There failed not ought of any good thing which the LORD had spoken unto the house of Israel; all came to pass."

Nehemiah 9:23 "Their children also multipliedst thou as the stars of heaven, and broughtest them into the land, concerning which thou hadst promised to their fathers, that they should go in to possess it. So the children went in and possessed the land"

Psalms 105:42 "For he remembered his holy promise, and Abraham his servant. And he brought forth his people with joy, and his chosen with gladness: And gave them the lands of the heathen: and they inherited the labour of the people"

Later in the New Testament, Paul explains that the land promise was extended even further, to contain the entire world.

Romans 4:13 "For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith."
So we know that by Abraham's seed, (Jesus Christ), is the whole world given into His hands....in complete fulfillment of the promise made to Abraham.

Colossians 3:24 "Knowing that of the Lord ye shall receive the reward of the inheritance: for ye serve the Lord Christ."

Very Good dave, now that is what i consider proof of fullfilled prophacyThanks

yesterdog · #32 13th June 2006, 05:41 PM

Originally Posted by Dave Taylor

You'll probably have a plethora of folks show up soon who will attempt villianize Amillennialism because it is an alternate expectation to their own view.

I think that's rather unfair...but polarizing positions often look at each other unfairly.

GustheMule · #33 15th June 2006, 08:09 PM

An important thing to know: We don't take the numbers in Revelation literally.

ETide · #34 15th June 2006, 09:14 PM

Originally Posted by GustheMule

An important thing to know: We don't take the numbers in Revelation literally.

The main distinction between millennialism and amillennialism is timing..

Many believe that the events spoken of in Revelation chapter 20 pertain to the future. These can be considered millennialists.. ie, they're expecting a literal thousand year reign of Christ in the future.

Many believe that the events spoken of in Revelation chapter 20 pertain to the here and now..ie, that we're already in the millennial kingdom of Christ.. These are considered amillennialists because they reject a future thousand year reign and consider it to be taking place right now.

The scripture is the same, it's simply that one camp believes that it pertains to the future whereas the other camp believes that it pertains to the here and now.

timing..

Here are the verses for the record..

Revelation 20:1-6

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, and cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

yesterdog · #35 15th June 2006, 09:46 PM

Originally Posted by GustheMule

An important thing to know: We don't take the numbers in Revelation literally.

Why not?

I went to a Baptist church for a number of years...and they took them as literal numbers. I see no reason not to take them as literal numbers.

yesterdog · #36 15th June 2006, 09:50 PM

Originally Posted by ETide

The main distinction between millennialism and amillennialism is timing..

Many believe that the events spoken of in Revelation chapter 20 pertain to the future. These can be considered millennialists.. ie, they're expecting a literal thousand year reign of Christ in the future.

Many believe that the events spoken of in Revelation chapter 20 pertain to the here and now..ie, that we're already in the millennial kingdom of Christ.. These are considered amillennialists because they reject a future thousand year reign and consider it to be taking place right now.

The scripture is the same, it's simply that one camp believes that it pertains to the future whereas the other camp believes that it pertains to the here and now.

timing..

Here are the verses for the record..

Revelation 20:1-6

And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand.

And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, and cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season.

And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.

But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.

Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

And the amillennial view is Augustinian.

Am I correct?

LittleLambofJesus · #37 15th June 2006, 09:58 PM

You'll probably have a plethora of folks show up soon who will attempt villianize Amillennialism because it is an alternate expectation to their own view.

I won't. One's view is just as good as another.

An important thing to know: We don't take the numbers in Revelation literally.

Originally Posted by yesterdog

Why not?

I went to a Baptist church for a number of years...and they took them as literal numbers. I see no reason not to take them as literal numbers.

So they interpreted the Bible for you? Who interprets it for you now?

1 John 2:18 Little youths, it is the last hour; and even as ye heard that the antichrist doth come, even now antichrists have become many--whence we know that it is the last hour;

brother daniel · #38 15th June 2006, 11:41 PM

Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus

I won't. One's view is just as good as another.
So they interpreted the Bible for you? Who interprets it for you now?

1 John 2:18 Little youths, it is the last hour; and even as ye heard that the antichrist doth come, even now antichrists have become many--whence we know that it is the last hour;

Today we each have access to strongs concordance and can do a word for word study of the scriptures from Hebrew and Greek.

The more one studies, prays and acts on the words of Jesus the the clearer ones understanding grows.

The place to start is doing what the Apostles did. REPENT, drop what ever we are doing and heed the WORD of God by following Jesus as the first disciples did. Once you have sold what you have and given to the poor as they did, then you find out who your real friends are. Seek fellowship with others who are living the gospel. How do you find them? Ask among the people you meet who say they are Christions ,If they know anybody who is living the word of God.
As you walk by faith you will have oppertunity to help others. Others will help you as you lift Jesus up.
Love your neighbor.
With love in Christ
brother daniel

ETide · #39 16th June 2006, 09:00 AM

Originally Posted by yesterdog

And the amillennial view is Augustinian.

Am I correct?

Most would agree that it is..

It has been said that he (Augustine) originally held to a millennial view but then later changed his mind and considered it as already taking place.. in the here and now.

Vast portions of Christendom are amillennial.. ie, the RCC, the EOC, and even many Protestant denominations.. although there are still many folks who hold to a millennial viewpoint as well.

But I'm pretty sure that most of it stems from Augustine's view of Rev 20. Perhaps somebody will comment on this who has studied it out in a little more detail..

ETide · #40 16th June 2006, 09:11 AM

When looking at the context of Revelation 20, it becomes obvious that there are a few things tied together here.. ie, they're basically inseparable in the text.

This is why amillennialists insist that Satan is currently bound, and that the First resurrection has already taken place.. because if we're already in the thousand year reign of Christ, as they claim that we are.. then these other things must also follow.. that Satan is bound, and that the first resurrection is past already..

In my estimation, it's fairly easy to show from the scriptures that Satan is not currently bound, and that the first resurrection has not yet taken place.

Amillennialists will obviously differ..