The Canon began to be formed in 144 CE when Marcion went to Rome and began to forumalise what is now the New Testament.
Considering the Gnostic Gospels were written after the life of Jesus, where does the hundreds of years come in where they were considered heretical?
In fact Elaine Pagels, an expert on the Gnostic Gospels, writes that they some were written between 120 and 140 CE. A mere 24 - 4 years before the Canon began to be formed.
Although to be fair there is scholarly debate that says that some Gnostics were actually penned between 50 and 100 CE, actually before the Gospels currently included in the Canon.
But even so, where is the hundreds years of condemnation?
The scriptural canon was not created until the mid 400s. That happens to be Church History.
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The Canon began to be formed in 144 CE when Marcion went to Rome and began to forumalise what is now the New Testament.
No, Marcion was a gnostic who rejected everything in the NT except the 10 Pauline Epistles and one Gospel, an abbreviated Luke.
Originally Posted by MapleLeaf
Considering the Gnostic Gospels were written after the life of Jesus, where does the hundreds of years come in where they were considered heretical?
By the time of Nicaea there was little confusion over what was "canonical" and what was "apocryphal" or "Pseudepigraphical".
Originally Posted by MapleLeaf
In fact Elaine Pagels, an expert on the Gnostic Gospels, writes that they some were written between 120 and 140 CE. A mere 24 - 4 years before the Canon began to be formed.
Elaine Pagels deserves respect as a scholar but she has a blind spot when it comes to the Nag Hammadi library, especially when it comes to the Gospel of Thomas...
I am just saying she may have a bias.
Originally Posted by MapleLeaf
Although to be fair there is scholarly debate that says that some Gnostics were actually penned between 50 and 100 CE, actually before the Gospels currently included in the Canon.
This view is that of a small minority.
Originally Posted by MapleLeaf
But even so, where is the hundreds years of condemnation?
Gnosticism actually predates Christianity in a pagan form, though it seems clear that there were forms of gnosticism which had appropriated Christian language and symbols by the end of the apostolic age. These heresiarchs and schools though were a minority.
Christian Gnosticism didn't really formalize and take off until the late second century and by the time of Nicaea had been pretty well disconnected from the catholic expression.
Arianism was not gnostic.
__________________ "We will never be truly free until the last fundamentalist is strangled in the guts of the last canon lawyer." - A Paraphrase of P. B. Shelley
No, Marcion was a gnostic who rejected everything in the NT except the 10 Pauline Epistles and one Gospel, an abbreviated Luke.
That is correct, but his journey to Rome led to the creation and the pullint together of what were the first books in the new Canon.
By the time of Nicaea there was little confusion over what was "canonical" and what was "apocryphal" or "Pseudepigraphical".
So you are saying then that it was formed by the time they got to Nicea? Hmmm... didn't I say that?
Elaine Pagels deserves respect as a scholar but she has a blind spot when it comes to the Nag Hammadi library, especially when it comes to the Gospel of Thomas...
I am just saying she may have a bias.
As does everyone who ever has, or ever will write about Christian History, the Bible etc. We read and interpret through the lens of our own lives. Isn't hermeneutical interpretation a wonderful thing.
This view is that of a small minority.
But it was a view, just because it was a minority does not mean it is wrong.
Gnosticism actually predates Christianity in a pagan form, though it seems clear that there were forms of gnosticism which had appropriated Christian language and symbols by the end of the apostolic age. These heresiarchs and schools though were a minority.
Again my comment about minorities stands.
Christian Gnosticism didn't really formalize and take off until the late second century and by the time of Nicaea had been pretty well disconnected from the catholic expression.
Christian Gnosticism was formalised much earlier in the 2nd century, not later - I use 150 CE as the benchmark between early and late.[/quote]
That is correct, but his journey to Rome led to the creation and the pullint together of what were the first books in the new Canon.
So you are saying then that it was formed by the time they got to Nicea? Hmmm... didn't I say that?
As does everyone who ever has, or ever will write about Christian History, the Bible etc. We read and interpret through the lens of our own lives. Isn't hermeneutical interpretation a wonderful thing.
But it was a view, just because it was a minority does not mean it is wrong.
Again my comment about minorities stands.
Christian Gnosticism was formalised much earlier in the 2nd century, not later - I use 150 CE as the benchmark between early and late.
Bro'...
I started responding to your post thinking we were in disagreement.
By the time I got done I realized we weren't.
Sorry...
Mike
Did I say it was?[/quote]
__________________ "We will never be truly free until the last fundamentalist is strangled in the guts of the last canon lawyer." - A Paraphrase of P. B. Shelley
Questions:1. Are there still Gnostics today? 2. Christian Gnositcism?(sp?) are there different kinds of gnosticism? for every religion is there a gnostic form of it?
Questions:1. Are there still Gnostics today? 2. Christian Gnositcism?(sp?) are there different kinds of gnosticism? for every religion is there a gnostic form of it?
There are some folks who claim to be, but it's hard to tell.
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However, those who wrote them, The Gnostics, were condemned by St. Paul.
My understanding is that it was a kind of proto-Gnosticism being condemned by the apostles (both Paul and John) in Scripture, but I don't disagree with you on anything substantial. Not in regard to this post, anyway.
__________________ I think we delight to praise what we enjoy because the praise not merely expresses but completes the enjoyment; it is its appointed consummation. C.S. Lewis Reflections on the Psalms
The Canon began to be formed in 144 CE when Marcion went to Rome and began to forumalise what is now the New Testament.
Considering the Gnostic Gospels were written after the life of Jesus, where does the hundreds of years come in where they were considered heretical?
In fact Elaine Pagels, an expert on the Gnostic Gospels, writes that they some were written between 120 and 140 CE. A mere 24 - 4 years before the Canon began to be formed.
Although to be fair there is scholarly debate that says that some Gnostics were actually penned between 50 and 100 CE, actually before the Gospels currently included in the Canon.
But even so, where is the hundreds years of condemnation?
Read the writings of St. Ireneaus of Lyons from about 180 AD, especially his work "Against Heresies" which can be found here. It deals specically with Gnosticism:
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"The chalice of benediction, which we bless, is it not the communion of the blood of Christ? And the bread, which we break, is it not the partaking of the body of the Lord? For we, being many, are one bread, one body, all that partake of one bread." (1 Cor. 10:16-17)
Questions:1. Are there still Gnostics today? 2. Christian Gnositcism?(sp?) are there different kinds of gnosticism? for every religion is there a gnostic form of it?
There are Christians and there are Gnostics, one cannot be both.
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