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  #101  
Old 22nd April 2006, 01:09 PM
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Originally Posted by CharAznable
If you notice, I was just showing that the principle of motive ultimately falls short. But anyways...

We all know the "trouble areas" of the male and female body, those are what we have to try to cover our best. You knew it from the time you went through puberty and you started developing. I don't understand why for 5950 years we all understood what modest was, what we had to cover up. Now all of a sudden around the 50s our standards kept declining and declining.

You don't have to dress as the Muslims do, but don't you think you should do your best to cover up the "trouble areas"? Looking at the model of clothing we can find in the Bible, shouldn't we at least try to match that, rather than settling for cleavage? I wonder what all the well endowed women of the Bible did. "Well look at how big my chest is, I just have to show cleavage!" I don't think so...
Um if you look at how they dressed in the bible, they wore clothes very similar to what the muslims wear. Also they did not have bras during the bible times, so cleavage was a none issue. Again cleavage is defined by a line that is made when the boobs are pushed together, this is caused by the bra. Women were also not made the same way back then, the amount of hormones in food, drinks etc causes girls to develop earlier and fuller so we can't really compare now to then as far as body type and clothing.
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  #102  
Old 22nd April 2006, 02:44 PM
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Originally Posted by CharAznable
Now, my motives are pure, but at the same time murderers will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Hmmm...
I always thought salvation is in Jesus.
Murders such as King David or Moses won't 'inherit the kingdom'?
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THE ATONEMENT
(Isa 53:5a) he was wounded for our offenses, and smitten for our wickedness:
for the pain of our punishment was laid upon him,
THE HEALING
(Isa 53:5b
)
additionally with his beatings we are cured.


(M
ark 16.18) ... they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well
(Psa 103:3) ... Who heals all your diseases

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  #103  
Old 22nd April 2006, 02:51 PM
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Originally Posted by AutumnDreamer
Again cleavage is defined by a line that is made when the boobs are pushed together, this is caused by the bra.
For small breasted women this is true.
For us with larger breasts this is not true.

Women were also not made the same way back then, the amount of hormones in food, drinks etc causes girls to develop earlier and fuller so we can't really compare now to then as far as body type and clothing.
This also is not accurate.
Size doesn't depend on food consumed.
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THE ATONEMENT
(Isa 53:5a) he was wounded for our offenses, and smitten for our wickedness:
for the pain of our punishment was laid upon him,
THE HEALING
(Isa 53:5b
)
additionally with his beatings we are cured.


(M
ark 16.18) ... they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well
(Psa 103:3) ... Who heals all your diseases

[Myhrrhleine Michelle Hunter]
[Merlin for short]

  #104  
Old 22nd April 2006, 02:58 PM
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Originally Posted by Merlin
For small breasted women this is true.
For us with larger breasts this is not true.


I do not have cleavage unless I am wearing a bra.


This also is not accurate.
Size doesn't depend on food consumed.
You are half right, it does not depend on food consumed, but it does largely depend on hormones consumed, through the food.
  #105  
Old 22nd April 2006, 05:22 PM
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Originally Posted by AutumnDreamer
Um if you look at how they dressed in the bible, they wore clothes very similar to what the muslims wear. Also they did not have bras during the bible times, so cleavage was a none issue. Again cleavage is defined by a line that is made when the boobs are pushed together, this is caused by the bra. Women were also not made the same way back then, the amount of hormones in food, drinks etc causes girls to develop earlier and fuller so we can't really compare now to then as far as body type and clothing.
You are right. Women didn't have to deal with the issue of cleavage, they chose to cover themselves.... Interesting...

Clothing during Bible times didn't include a headdress that covered everything in except your eyes, it covered the top of your head to protect you from the sun. The face and hair were NOT covered. Everything else was. And this is how it was for centuries until the church started becoming silent on issues, and the world began to tell women to "show me what you're working with".

The whole "women didn't grow like that back then" is completely unfounded. The fact of the matter is this: There was loose clothing that covered your body for years and its still out there. Women who have the physical ability to wear it should, and the same goes for men! Too often we stop and say "Well I could wear that, but then I won't look attractive". We all need to decide what's more important to us, our love of God, or our love of attention and validation from others.

Last edited by CharAznable; 22nd April 2006 at 05:32 PM.
  #106  
Old 22nd April 2006, 05:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Merlin
Hmmm...
I always thought salvation is in Jesus.
Murders such as King David or Moses won't 'inherit the kingdom'?
When the Bible says "Those who do XYZ will not inherit the kingdom of God", it is saying that such an act is sin. Therefore, those who have lifestyles with the sinful act will not inherit the kingdom of God. One act doesn't keep you out of heaven if you've accepted Jesus Christ as savior. At the same time, living a lifestyle of sin without repentance shows you have not accepted Jesus Christ.

When I originally wrote that, I was just using another way to say that murder is a sin.
  #107  
Old 22nd April 2006, 06:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CharAznable
You are right. Women didn't have to deal with the issue of cleavage, they chose to cover themselves.... Interesting...

Clothing during Bible times didn't include a headdress that covered everything in except your eyes, it covered the top of your head to protect you from the sun. The face and hair were NOT covered. Everything else was. And this is how it was for centuries until the church started becoming silent on issues, and the world began to tell women to "show me what you're working with".
You are right, women did not have everything but their eyes covered, I was not refering to the headwear, but the dress itself. It was a one piece dress that covered everything from neck to toe just like the muslims wear.

The whole "women didn't grow like that back then" is completely unfounded. The fact of the matter is this: There was loose clothing that covered your body for years and its still out there. Women who have the physical ability to wear it should, and the same goes for men! Too often we stop and say "Well I could wear that, but then I won't look attractive". We all need to decide what's more important to us, our love of God, or our love of attention and validation from others.
Actually it is not unfounded, do some research, is fact that the hormones people ingest in this day and age, largely impact their physcial make up. The "well I could wear this but then I won't look attractive" is ridiculous to even think that way, wanting to look attractive is not a sin. Again it all comes down to motive. I assume you are single, when you look for a woman to date do you look for one that is attractive and well dressed? Or do you look for someone that is dressed frumpy so they don't draw attention to themselves? Your arguement is losing its value, b/c the guidelines you are suggesting women live by (loose and frumpy vs. fitted and attractive) is not a standard that you would hold a woman to were you looking for a wife.
  #108  
Old 22nd April 2006, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by AutumnDreamer
I do not have cleavage unless I am wearing a bra.
And you are likewise DD?

You are half right, it does not depend on food consumed, but it does largely depend on hormones consumed, through the food.
If this were true, then women on birth control hormones would drag on the ground after a few years.
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THE ATONEMENT
(Isa 53:5a) he was wounded for our offenses, and smitten for our wickedness:
for the pain of our punishment was laid upon him,
THE HEALING
(Isa 53:5b
)
additionally with his beatings we are cured.


(M
ark 16.18) ... they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well
(Psa 103:3) ... Who heals all your diseases

[Myhrrhleine Michelle Hunter]
[Merlin for short]

  #109  
Old 22nd April 2006, 06:23 PM
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Originally Posted by CharAznable
When the Bible says "Those who do XYZ will not inherit the kingdom of God", it is saying that such an act is sin. Therefore, those who have lifestyles with the sinful act will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Have not all sinned and fallen short?
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THE ATONEMENT
(Isa 53:5a) he was wounded for our offenses, and smitten for our wickedness:
for the pain of our punishment was laid upon him,
THE HEALING
(Isa 53:5b
)
additionally with his beatings we are cured.


(M
ark 16.18) ... they will place their hands on sick people, and they will get well
(Psa 103:3) ... Who heals all your diseases

[Myhrrhleine Michelle Hunter]
[Merlin for short]

  #110  
Old 22nd April 2006, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by AutumnDreamer
You are right, women did not have everything but their eyes covered, I was not refering to the headwear, but the dress itself. It was a one piece dress that covered everything from neck to toe just like the muslims wear.
Well then you made my argument for me. Is clothing like this too much to ask for God? Why did it suddenly become such an unbearable burden for people? If you don't want to wear a one-piece suit, fine. Wear a two-piece suit that has you COVERED. Thank you.

Actually it is not unfounded, do some research, is fact that the hormones people ingest in this day and age, largely impact their physcial make up.
Hormones do impact it, but not nearly as much as you would have us believe. Hormones in food have, for the most part, impacted how early children start to develop. Yes, it may have some affect on how well-endowed children these days are becoming, but not to the extent you want us to think.

The idea that "women back then weren't as big" is ridiculous. Would you have me believe that there were no well-endowed women in the Bible days? Futhermore, do you even have proof? I would love to see a link to show this.

The "well I could wear this but then I won't look attractive" is ridiculous to even think that way, wanting to look attractive is not a sin.
Let me make this clear: There is nothing wrong with wanting to be attractive. Do not get my words twisted.

What I am condemning is putting one's need to be attractive over your love for God (in this case, pursuit of modesty). Too many men and women have the opportunity to be properly clothed, but go for the immodest clothing because it makes them look attractive.

I contend that there are ways to look attractive while being as modest as humanely possible. Many will disagree, and the only thing they will have to say in their defense is "Well that shirt will make me look old. That's old people's clothes!"

Again it all comes down to motive. I assume you are single, when you look for a woman to date do you look for one that is attractive and well dressed? Or do you look for someone that is dressed frumpy so they don't draw attention to themselves?
When I look for a woman, I look for a woman of God. That comes first and foremost! I don't care if they look "frumpy", in fact, I have been attracted to women who look "frumpy" because I could look past what they were wearing and got to know who they were!

Outside appearance is not a determining factor for me, believe it or not.

Your arguement is losing its value, b/c the guidelines you are suggesting women live by (loose and frumpy vs. fitted and attractive) is not a standard that you would hold a woman to were you looking for a wife.
My argument is not loosing its value. Again, why can't a woman wear loose clothing and be attractive? I'm literally confused here! Why is this feat so impossible?

I don't understand how men have found women to be attractive for thousands of years when they were wearing loose clothing, but now all of a sudden in the last 50-100 years, its impossible to find such a woman. Are you trying to say that women today are not as beautiful as women of the past? Then and only then does your argument make sense. Because then women would have to show cleavage, have to wear tight clothing just to make up for their lack otherwise.

No, I think women are beautiful period. I go to church and see modestly dressed women be attractive. No cleavage, no tight clothes etc. Its not impossible. The truth is many women only dress this way in church, and that's sad. Again, you don't need to wear a business suit every day, but you can be covered and be attractive.

Furthermore I don't see why "fitted" has to equal "tight". I'm not trying to say that she has to wear an umbrella for a skirt. At the same time, you can wear fitted clothing that doesn't hug every last curve you have.

Finally, please don't assume to know who and what I would like until you get to know me. Please, you can go to the park and see attractive females jog in baggy sweats!

Modesty is real, its obtainable, its acheivable and its still attractive! We all need to strive for the best possible for God, "settling" will not please Him. We should all work towards being able to say at the end of each day "Today I gave my very best to God!"
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