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14th April 2006, 12:33 AM
| | Senior Veteran
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Reps: 5,825,286,539,019 (power: 0) | | | The Donkey King
By what manner does a king introduce himself? By what means does a king enter his (or any) city? He comes with his army, on a battle charger, ready to defend himself and those of his choosing.
And Jesus comes into the city on a donkey, bursting into tears because his people do not know what his kingdom is all about.
By the end of the week they would be calling for Barrabas, hailing the murderer as 'messiah'. They wanted a messiah to overtake the Romans and avenge Jerusalem--and Jesus would die for Jerusalem by being killed by the Romans. They wanted their own military kingdom on earth--and Jesus would show them the kingdom of God where he was king.
What kind of king is Jesus? What kingdom? Of what victory for what god was Jesus for?
We seek a god to stand above us, wrapping his arms around us, leading us on as a "Christian nation" into victory against our enemies; we'll find another God in Jesus, a God of suffering and pain, a God as lost as us--and this God gives us the gospel of victory. Jesus is the king, who really is not like a king at all. And that is the point. The kingdom of God is not really like a kingdom at all. And that is the point. God is not really like a god at all... and that is the point.
In this holy week, instead of being so quick to echo the song of Jerusalem, "Hosanna in the highest" for what we want the messiah to look like; instead let us think about who the messiah is, and what it really means to call him messiah.
(inspired by a seminar given at St. Paul's Episcopal by John Crossan)  |
14th April 2006, 01:33 PM
| | Have you found the Yellow Sign?
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tulc(happy good Friday!) 
__________________ I'm a firm believer in Arkham's Razor:
The simplest explanation tends to be Cthulhu.
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14th April 2006, 03:49 PM
| | Go Cubbies!
| | Join Date: 7th June 2005
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Reps: 30,905,770,797,737,896 (power: 30,905,770,797,746) | | Originally Posted by :paxigoth: By what manner does a king introduce himself? By what means does a king enter his (or any) city? He comes with his army, on a battle charger, ready to defend himself and those of his choosing.
And Jesus comes into the city on a donkey, bursting into tears because his people do not know what his kingdom is all about.
By the end of the week they would be calling for Barrabas, hailing the murderer as 'messiah'. They wanted a messiah to overtake the Romans and avenge Jerusalem--and Jesus would die for Jerusalem by being killed by the Romans. They wanted their own military kingdom on earth--and Jesus would show them the kingdom of God where he was king.
What kind of king is Jesus? What kingdom? Of what victory for what god was Jesus for?
We seek a god to stand above us, wrapping his arms around us, leading us on as a "Christian nation" into victory against our enemies; we'll find another God in Jesus, a God of suffering and pain, a God as lost as us--and this God gives us the gospel of victory. Jesus is the king, who really is not like a king at all. And that is the point. The kingdom of God is not really like a kingdom at all. And that is the point. God is not really like a god at all... and that is the point.
In this holy week, instead of being so quick to echo the song of Jerusalem, "Hosanna in the highest" for what we want the messiah to look like; instead let us think about who the messiah is, and what it really means to call him messiah.
(inspired by a seminar given at St. Paul's Episcopal by John Crossan)
Interesting what you say that God is not like a god at all. I think I agree but would say it only very slightly differently, that a god is nothing like God. I personally believe that much of the bible and it's stories are intended to let us know what kind of God it is that we worship. |
14th April 2006, 08:03 PM
| | Senior Veteran
| | Join Date: 5th June 2005
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Reps: 5,825,286,539,019 (power: 0) | | | Yes... though it is important to keep in mind that 'god' is a human term/concept that has its own meaning before the idea of Jesus is introduced into the mix.
As Crossan has also pointed out, the amazing thing about people declaring Jesus divine is NOT the concept of divinity itself, but rather with the notion that it would be Jesus (as opposed to a normal king or messiah) that would be hailed as divine...
.... thus transforming the entire concept of divinity or deity or godness or whatever one wants to call it. |
14th April 2006, 08:11 PM
|  | listening
50     
| | Join Date: 22nd October 2005 Location: northern VA
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Reps: 49,825 (power: 62) | | Originally Posted by :paxigoth: By what manner does a king introduce himself? By what means does a king enter his (or any) city? He comes with his army, on a battle charger, ready to defend himself and those of his choosing.
And Jesus comes into the city on a donkey, bursting into tears because his people do not know what his kingdom is all about.
By the end of the week they would be calling for Barrabas, hailing the murderer as 'messiah'. They wanted a messiah to overtake the Romans and avenge Jerusalem--and Jesus would die for Jerusalem by being killed by the Romans. They wanted their own military kingdom on earth--and Jesus would show them the kingdom of God where he was king.
What kind of king is Jesus? What kingdom? Of what victory for what god was Jesus for?
We seek a god to stand above us, wrapping his arms around us, leading us on as a "Christian nation" into victory against our enemies; we'll find another God in Jesus, a God of suffering and pain, a God as lost as us--and this God gives us the gospel of victory. Jesus is the king, who really is not like a king at all. And that is the point. The kingdom of God is not really like a kingdom at all. And that is the point. God is not really like a god at all... and that is the point.
In this holy week, instead of being so quick to echo the song of Jerusalem, "Hosanna in the highest" for what we want the messiah to look like; instead let us think about who the messiah is, and what it really means to call him messiah.
(inspired by a seminar given at St. Paul's Episcopal by John Crossan) 
good food for thought. thanx
__________________
We cannot live only for ourselves. A thousand fibers connect us with our fellow men; and among those fibers, as sympathetic threads, our actions run as causes, and they come back to us as effects. Herman Melville
The more we learn from people whose lives are different from ours, the more we see the face of God. Lenten Booklet, Episcopal Relief and Deveopment
The place God calls you to is the place where your deep gladness and the world's deep hunger meet. Frederick Buechner |
14th April 2006, 08:39 PM
| | Veteran
32
| | Join Date: 23rd February 2005
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Reps: 5,260 (power: 13) | | Originally Posted by :paxigoth: By what manner does a king introduce himself? By what means does a king enter his (or any) city? He comes with his army, on a battle charger, ready to defend himself and those of his choosing.
And Jesus comes into the city on a donkey, bursting into tears because his people do not know what his kingdom is all about.
By the end of the week they would be calling for Barrabas, hailing the murderer as 'messiah'. They wanted a messiah to overtake the Romans and avenge Jerusalem--and Jesus would die for Jerusalem by being killed by the Romans. They wanted their own military kingdom on earth--and Jesus would show them the kingdom of God where he was king.
What kind of king is Jesus? What kingdom? Of what victory for what god was Jesus for?
We seek a god to stand above us, wrapping his arms around us, leading us on as a "Christian nation" into victory against our enemies; we'll find another God in Jesus, a God of suffering and pain, a God as lost as us--and this God gives us the gospel of victory. Jesus is the king, who really is not like a king at all. And that is the point. The kingdom of God is not really like a kingdom at all. And that is the point. God is not really like a god at all... and that is the point.
In this holy week, instead of being so quick to echo the song of Jerusalem, "Hosanna in the highest" for what we want the messiah to look like; instead let us think about who the messiah is, and what it really means to call him messiah.
(inspired by a seminar given at St. Paul's Episcopal by John Crossan)
__________________
normal is just a setting on a washing machine.
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He who gives you the day will also give you the things necessary for that day.-Gregory of Nyssa |
14th April 2006, 09:14 PM
|  | O Christianos Cryptos; Amor Vincit Omnia!
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| | Join Date: 21st October 2004 Location: Berkeley, CA
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Reps: 9,223,372,051,715,188 (power: 9,223,372,051,740) | | Thank you, Paxigoth! It was a pleasant avenue of thought to wander down, though I'm not sure I agree completely- It's not so much that Jesus is not like a king, but that Jesus is what kings ought to be more like. Originally Posted by C.S. Lewis in "The Horse and His Boy" "Hurrah! Hurrah!" said Corin. "I shan't have to be King. I'll be a prince. It's princes have all the fun."
"And that's truer than thy brother knows, Cor," said King Lune. "For this is what it means to be a king: To be first in every desperate attack and last in every desperate retreat, and when there's hunger in the land (as must be now and then in bad years) to wear finer clothes and laugh louder over a scantier meal than any man in your land." |
14th April 2006, 11:06 PM
|  | free Crazy Liz!
41 
| | Join Date: 14th July 2005 Location: Maryland
Posts: 9,999
Blessings: 76,824
Reps: 2,811,031 (power: 2,827) | | As Crossan has also pointed out, the amazing thing about people declaring Jesus divine is NOT the concept of divinity itself, but rather with the notion that it would be Jesus (as opposed to a normal king or messiah) that would be hailed as divine...
A hard lesson and one that is hard to remember.
I haven't thanked you, yet, for recommending Crossan to me, but I should. I'm reading my first book by him and I love it.
__________________ Because CF no longer has an atmosphere conducive to free discussion, I have left for greener pastures (TR, SoF) where I maintain the same username.
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15th April 2006, 10:02 PM
|  | Left the river, made it to the sea
36
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__________________
“This is the man I want myself to be but who cannot exist, because God does not know anything about him. And to be unknown to God is altogether too much privacy. My false and private self is the one who wants to exist outside the reach of God’s will and God’s love –outside of reality and outside of life. And such a self cannot help but be an illusion." -- Thomas Merton |
17th October 2009, 10:33 PM
| | Senior Veteran
| | Join Date: 5th June 2005
Posts: 2,189
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Reps: 5,825,286,539,019 (power: 0) | | | One of my all time favorite posts... (even though we're on the wrong side of the Liturgical calendar at this point)... Never forget the Donkey King! | | |
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