I would like to discuss just the book of Malachi with only Jews and Muslims for now concerning the Messiah and Day of the Lord.
The jewish religion is still awaiting on a messiah and the Day of the Lord in the OT as shown in Isaiah 61:.
Isaiah 61: 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, And the day of vengeance of our God; To comfort all who mourn,
The Bible shows one coming in multitudes of places in the OT, the last one being the book of Malachi. This is YLT quote showing the Lord Himself bringing a New Covenantfor Israel and Judah
Question. Is this the NC spoken of in Jeremiah 31and is this a literal Temple He is coming to?
(Young) Malachi 3:1 Lo, I am sending My messenger, And he hath prepared a way before Me, And suddenly come in unto his temple Doth the Lord whom ye are seeking, Even the Messenger of The Covenant, Whom ye are desiring, Lo, he is coming, said Jehovah of Hosts.
AFTER the Lord comes with the NC to the both Israel and Judah, the Day of the Lord appears to be the next event as shown in Malachi 4, which I feel comes close to resembling the prophecy of Jesus Christ in the Gospels and Daniel 12 and our own book of Revelation. So what are the jews views concerning the Messiah and Day of the Lord in the Bible? Thanks and peace.
(Young) Malachi 4:1 For, lo, the day hath come, burning as a furnace, And all the proud, and every wicked doer, have been stubble, And burnt them hath the day that came, Said Jehovah of Hosts, That there is not left to them root or branch,
[Matt 23: 35 "that on you may come all the righteous bloodshed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 38 "See! Your House is left to you a Wilderness;]
I addressed the "Jeremiah" issue on another forum where you posted today. I suppose you haven't seen my post there, but I won't go over it again here. So let me see what you're trying to get at here...
Originally Posted by LittleLambofJesus
I would like to discuss just the book of Malachi with only Jews and Muslims for now concerning the Messiah and Day of the Lord.
The jewish religion is still awaiting on a messiah and the Day of the Lord in the OT as shown in Isaiah 61:.
This is fairly accurate. More precisely, the Jews haven't "closed the book" on the "Messiah" issue (as Christians have).
[quote]Isaiah 61: 2 To proclaim the acceptable year of the LORD, And the day of vengeance of our God; To comfort all who mourn... ¶The Bible shows one coming in multitudes of places in the OT, the last one being the book of Malachi.{/quote]
Yes, Malachi speaks of a coming messenger, and some believe this is the same as the speaker in Isaiah 61 -- though it will be noted that Isaiah is speaking in the first person. It's hard to tell in Isaiah, just where the prophecy leaves off and the monologue begins. Isaiah himself spoke about the "acceptable year of Hashem" and the "day of vengeance", just as much as Jesus did. Neither of them gave an exact day for the "day of vengeance", though. I presume you're posting all this in order to "preach Jesus", but you're not being very convincing here.
"This is YLT quote showing the Lord Himself bringing a New Covenantfor Israel and Judah
There is nothing in the text that connects this "messenger" with the "new covenant" of Jeremiah 31. THAT passage speaks about a coming "Messianic Age", in which the fortunes of the State of Israel will be fully restored. That day has not yet come, though I (and many Jews) see in beginning to happen in our lifetimes. These things certainly did not come about in Jesus' time -- instead, Israeli independence was crushed by the Romans.
Question. Is this the NC spoken of in Jeremiah 31and is this a literal Temple He is coming to?
Jeremiah 31 is the ONLY place I see a "new covenant" spoken of as such. As for the Temple, yes, it is literal. Ezekiel speaks about the necessity of rebuilding the Temple BEFORE the Messianic events happen (contrary to the beliefs of even many Jews today). Zeke even specifies its floor plan and dimensions -- it curiously occuies more than the current Temple Mount, so some llandscaping will be in order. I dare say that few, other than I, believe this will literally happen: Neither Christians believe it nor Jews; but I do.
(Young) Malachi 3:1 Lo, I am sending My messenger, And he hath prepared a way before Me, And suddenly come in unto his temple Doth the Lordwhom ye are seeking, Even the Messenger of The Covenant, Whom ye are desiring, Lo, he is coming, said Jehovah of Hosts.
This looks like a real hodgepodge translation. The JPS does a better job, but I don't have time to quote it.
AFTER the Lord comes with the NC to the both Israel and Judah, the Day of the Lord appears to be the next event as shown in Malachi 4, which I feel comes close to resembling the prophecy of Jesus Christ in the Gospels and Daniel 12 and our own book of Revelation. So what are the jews views concerning the Messiah and Day of the Lord in the Bible? Thanks and peace.
(Young) Malachi 4:1 For, lo, the day hath come, burning as a furnace, And all the proud, and every wicked doer, have been stubble, And burnt them hath the day that came, Said Jehovah of Hosts, That there is not left to them root or branch,
[Matt 23: 35 "that on you may come all the righteous bloodshed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 38 "See! Your House is left to you a Wilderness;]
I don't have time to respond to all this, but it looks like just another anti-Semitic tirade, trying to call Jews "Christ Killers" and to claim that the Christians have become the "True Jews". The only difference between you and the classical "Stormfront" type of anti-Semite, is that you're cut/pasting scriptures out of context to get your point across. I really wonder why you are using the Sabbath to do this. Words like yours are killing Jews, and have killed them in the past, because the rabble uses these proclamations by so-called "religious" people in order to justify barbaric acts. All I can say is, "Don't do this", and "God forbid, that you should succeed".
Despite your belief that God has abandoned the Jews for their "villainy", though, you only need to look at the very scriptures you quotes -- namely, the Prophets, especially Jeremiah 31 -- to see that God plans a thoroughgoing vindication and redemption of Israel, along with condemnation and judgment against those who oppose her.
(Young) Malachi 4:1 For, lo, the day hath come, burning as a furnace, And all the proud, and every wicked doer, have been stubble, And burnt them hath the day that came, Said Jehovah of Hosts, That there is not left to them root or branch,
[Matt 23: 35 "that on you may come all the righteous bloodshed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 38 "See! Your House is left to you a Wilderness;]
These things certainly did not come about in Jesus' time -- instead, Israeli independence was crushed by the Romans.
Question. Is this the NC spoken of in Jeremiah 31and is this a literal Temple He is coming to? (Young) Malachi 3:1 Lo, I am sending My messenger, And he hath prepared a way before Me, And suddenly come in unto his temple Doth the Lordwhom ye are seeking, Even the Messenger of The Covenant, Whom ye are desiring, Lo, he is coming, said Jehovah of Hosts.
This looks like a real hodgepodge translation. The JPS does a better job, but I don't have time to quote it.
How many Convenants do the jews believe the Lord is bringing? And what is the purpose of it Biblically? Peace.
(JPS1917 OT) Malachi 3:1 Behold, I send My messenger, and he shall clear the way before Me; and the Lord, whom ye seek, will suddenly come to His temple, and the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in, behold, he cometh, saith the LORD of hosts.
Jeremiah 31:31 " Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a New [#02319] Covenant [#01285] with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah --
2319 chadash khaw-dawsh' from 2318; new:--fresh, new thing.
Mala 3:......Even the Messenger of The Covenant[#01285], Whom ye are desiring, Lo, he is coming, said Jehovah of Hosts. 1285 briyth ber-eeth' from 1262 (in the sense of cutting (like 1254)); a compact (because made by passing between pieces of flesh):--confederacy, (con-)feder(-ate), covenant, league.
Last edited by LittleLambofJesus; 25th March 2006 at 12:50 PM.
The Bible shows one coming in multitudes of places in the OT, the last one being the book of Malachi. This is YLT quote showing the Lord Himself bringing a New Covenantfor Israel and Judah
Okay Lamb, I think I understand your question here.
The "New Covenant" mentioned in Jeremiah 31: 30-36 had yet to come true. It speaks about universal knowledge of God, and everyone knowing and obeying Torah becuase it is in their hearts.
The basic Jewish interpetation is simple. The world will realize and acknowledge HaShem (God), and will begin to obey his will, which I have pointed out before, is treating fellow man with love and respect.
All these things and more are echoed in other prophetic passages, but I think BLand has provided a good explanation about the the literal interpetation of these passages. However, I would like to close with the last few passages from the book of Malachi, they describes on of the precusors to this Day of the Lord...
Originally Posted by Malachi 3
22. Keep in remembrance the teaching of Moses, My servant-the laws and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel.
23. Lo, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and awesome day of the Lord,
24. that he may turn the heart of the fathers back through the children, and the heart of the children back through their fathers-lest I come and smite the earth with utter destruction.
Keep in note, the Christian bible has this in Malachi 4, but the Jewish texts end Malachi here.
As you can see, Elijah has not arrived yet, and he hasn't turned the heart of his fathers back through his children.
Okay Lamb, I think I understand your question here.
The "New Covenant" mentioned in Jeremiah 31: 30-36 had yet to come true. It speaks about universal knowledge of God, and everyone knowing and obeying Torah becuase it is in their hearts.
The basic Jewish interpetation is simple. The world will realize and acknowledge HaShem (God), and will begin to obey his will, which I have pointed out before, is treating fellow man with love and respect.
All these things and more are echoed in other prophetic passages, but I think BLand has provided a good explanation about the the literal interpetation of these passages. However, I would like to close with the last few passages from the book of Malachi, they describes on of the precusors to this Day of the Lord...
Keep in note, the Christian bible has this in Malachi 4, but the Jewish texts end Malachi here.
As you can see, Elijah has not arrived yet, and he hasn't turned the heart of his fathers back through his children.
The jewish Tanach does not include Malachi 4 or am I not understading that part
I didn't know that, as I view it as a type of the "Day of the Lord/Time of the End" shown in Joel and Daniel 12. Peace.
(Young) Malachi 4:1 For, lo, the day hath come, burning as a furnace, And all the proud, and every wicked doer, have been stubble, And burnt them hath the day that came, Said Jehovah of Hosts, That there is not left to them root or branch,
Malachi 2:1 "And now, O priests, this commandment is for you. 2 If you will not hear, And if you will not take [it] to heart, To give glory to My name," Says the LORD of hosts, "I will send a curse upon you, And I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have cursed them already, Because you do not take [it] to heart.
Joel 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the Day of the LORD [is] near in the valley of decision. 15 The sun and moon will grow dark, And the stars will diminish their brightness. 16 The LORD also will roar from Zion, And utter His voice from Jerusalem; The heavens and earth will shake; But the LORD will be a shelter for His people, And the strength of the children of Israel.
Last edited by LittleLambofJesus; 25th March 2006 at 02:50 PM.
yair i dont want to get you guys of topic but you mentioned hashem does that mean god? becouse i have friends with that name also my cosins father is called hashem and my cosins name is bandar the son of hasham.
yair i dont want to get you guys of topic but you mentioned hashem does that mean god? becouse i have friends with that name also my cosins father is called hashem and my cosins name is bandar the son of hasham.
if it is thats kind of intresting
Ha'Shem is Hebrew for "The Name", a word we Jews use to reffer to the Holy, unpronounceable name of God, YHVH.
I think Hasham, reffers to something else in Arabic.
The jewish Tanach does not include Malachi 4 or am I not understading that part
I didn't know that, as I view it as a type of the "Day of the Lord/Time of the End" shown in Joel and Daniel 12. Peace.
(Young) Malachi 4:1 For, lo, the day hath come, burning as a furnace, And all the proud, and every wicked doer, have been stubble, And burnt them hath the day that came, Said Jehovah of Hosts, That there is not left to them root or branch,
Malachi 2:1 "And now, O priests, this commandment is for you. 2 If you will not hear, And if you will not take [it] to heart, To give glory to My name," Says the LORD of hosts, "I will send a curse upon you, And I will curse your blessings. Yes, I have cursed them already, Because you do not take [it] to heart.
Joel 3:14 Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision! For the Day of the LORD [is] near in the valley of decision. 15 The sun and moon will grow dark, And the stars will diminish their brightness. 16 The LORD also will roar from Zion, And utter His voice from Jerusalem; The heavens and earth will shake; But the LORD will be a shelter for His people, And the strength of the children of Israel.
Originally Posted by Yair
Yes, it's the same day.
Thanks. That is also my view.
But unlike most christians, I feel that was what Jesus was referring to in Matt 23 concerning the Priests and Pharicees as the house/Sanctuary did become desolate by the roman army. Just trying to Harmonize the Scriptures brother.
Peace
(Young) Malachi 4:1 For, lo, the day hath come, burning as a furnace, And all the proud, and every wicked doer, have been stubble, And burnt them hath the day that came, Said Jehovah of Hosts, That there is not left to them root or branch,
Matt 23: 35 "that on you may come all the righteous bloodshed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah, son of Berechiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar...
....38 "See! Your House is left to you a Wilderness;]
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