| General Theology The forum for general theological discussions about issues that do not fit in any other forum, eg. Angelology |
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23rd March 2006, 10:23 PM
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Reps: 4,251 (power: 17) | | Originally Posted by IronFire Capitalism is not about getting rich - it's about freedom.
For who, the 10% monopoly? Isn't it amazing that the USA (and others) survived so long without wellfare?
Yeah, you mean by exploiting people through slavery and slave labor? There certainly was survival - Darwinistic survival of the fittest. The past wasn't as golden as some people make it seem. And even then, it was often golden only to those scoundrels that were the most ruthless enough to get the gold. And I don't see how you can deny it:Wellfare is taking money from people without permission and giving it to other people.
No, it is not. Welfare is part of what we agreed to put money into as part of social justice. It is supposed to help those who are down on their luck or the elderly and disabled. And even then, do you honestly think that most people can live off of $800 a month today? It's hardly much to help, and that is my main complaint of the system, besides those that abuse the system.
This is like the nonsense of the people that talk about the waste it is to put their tax-paying dollars into improving roads and education and wondering why there is so much deterioration and bumpy pot holes. You can't have a better society without being willing to help others out. Yes, giving money to poor people is great, but my point is that the ends don't justify the means.
Yes it does. Your logic is just not correct. This isn't a sort of thing that the argument can be made that the ends don't justify the means. The place where it is messed up is how the rich in this country often have no real regard for the poor. I don't thing their ends justify any means, especially considering all the loopholes they can find to get out of paying taxes and putting the majority of weight on the middle class.
Maybe you just haven't been down on your luck and actually having to file for unemployment, or anything else where welfare can be of benefit. If we didn't have welfare, those that trully would benefit would more than likely starve to death under the Darwinistic social views that capitolism ends up in when unrestrained. Heck, even with restraints, they still try to push the limits of how shrewd they can be.
Pax Tecum,
John
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23rd March 2006, 10:28 PM
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Reps: 4,251 (power: 17) | | Originally Posted by Forest Perhaps capitalism promote opportunity?
How so? Through Social Darwinism?
Pax Tecum,
John
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23rd March 2006, 10:34 PM
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Reps: 4,251 (power: 17) | | Originally Posted by catlover Are you as annoyed with coporate bankruptcy which costs the tax payers millions?
Apparently not. Maybe that is where waste of tax payer dollars truly "justify the means" to some people on here. Or how about eminent domain, which some companies are now exploiting to be able to make smaller buisnesses and families have to move? Apparently that may too be a place where the "ends justify the means."
Even Shaun Hannity is fighting the whole imminent doman nonsense. When even a Republican sees such things as nuts, you know something is messed up about it.
Pax Tecum,
John
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23rd March 2006, 11:14 PM
|  | Life of Trials :)
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Reps: 172,927,158,589,327,136 (power: 172,927,158,589,365) | | | Capitalism is economic just as any other economic system in the world. Reading the Bible, there were many different type of economics involved.
The key is this when Jesus said: "Where your treasure is, there will your heart be also" (Matthew 6:21).
The KEY is this: Its how you manage the money that you receive from our paycheck or earn an income from personal business. Money is used to meet our daily needs such as food, utility bills and other expenses. God would meet all of our needs (Matthew 6), however God will not meet our selfish desires. There is nothing wrong with having a desire for something as long as our motives are correct. It is important that we look from God's perspective in our stewardship so that we are not pursuing desires against God's will and purpose.
Ecclesiastes 6:2
God gives a man wealth, possessions and honor, so that he lacks nothing his heart desires, but God does not enable him to enjoy them, and a stranger enjoys them instead. This is meaningless, a grievous evil.
In Proverbs 4:23, "Above all else, guard your heart, for it affects everything you do." (NLT)
In Proverbs 21:2, "People may think they are doing what is right, but the Lord examines the heart." (NLT)
If we are seeking God for our own selfishness (self-interest) other than our spiritual relationship with Jesus Christ is a form of idolatry.
Everything belongs to God, who calls the Church (Christians) to live in faithful stewardship of all that God has entrusted to us. As I said in the past, Christians' view of money and material possessions is an effective barometer of our spirituality.
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God knows all. He has known everything from the beginning. Nothing is a surprise to God, nor does He ever come into possession of new knowledge. Did it ever occur to you that nothing occurs to God?
God gave us conscience. If the truth of God's Word opposes the world's wisdom on a certain issue, you must align yourself with God's Word.
Faith is from God, not from man. Man can do nothing to earn or receive it. Martin Luther
If we take our doctrines into our hearts where they belong, they can cause upheavals of emotion and sleepless nights. This is far better than toying with academic ideas that never touch life. John Piper
Faith is the gift of God – not the result of the persuasion of the evangelist.Jerry Bridges |
24th March 2006, 01:44 AM
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Reps: 9,223,372,036,879,674 (power: 9,223,372,036,890) | | Originally Posted by JCrawf For who, the 10% monopoly?
Yeah, you mean by exploiting people through slavery and slave labor? There certainly was survival - Darwinistic survival of the fittest. The past wasn't as golden as some people make it seem. And even then, it was often golden only to those scoundrels that were the most ruthless enough to get the gold.
No, it is not. Welfare is part of what we agreed to put money into as part of social justice. It is supposed to help those who are down on their luck or the elderly and disabled. And even then, do you honestly think that most people can live off of $800 a month today? It's hardly much to help, and that is my main complaint of the system, besides those that abuse the system.
This is like the nonsense of the people that talk about the waste it is to put their tax-paying dollars into improving roads and education and wondering why there is so much deterioration and bumpy pot holes. You can't have a better society without being willing to help others out.
Yes it does. Your logic is just not correct. This isn't a sort of thing that the argument can be made that the ends don't justify the means. The place where it is messed up is how the rich in this country often have no real regard for the poor. I don't thing their ends justify any means, especially considering all the loopholes they can find to get out of paying taxes and putting the majority of weight on the middle class.
Maybe you just haven't been down on your luck and actually having to file for unemployment, or anything else where welfare can be of benefit. If we didn't have welfare, those that trully would benefit would more than likely starve to death under the Darwinistic social views that capitolism ends up in when unrestrained. Heck, even with restraints, they still try to push the limits of how shrewd they can be.
Pax Tecum,
John
great post, John.
God bless,
Lucas
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24th March 2006, 04:32 AM
|  | Servant of the Most High God
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| | Join Date: 20th October 2005 Location: Redmond, WA, USA
Posts: 2,069
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Reps: 2,566 (power: 0) | | | Like everything else, capitalism is a tool, it is a system, a way of doing things. Whether it is used for good or evil is a function of the heart. Unfortunately, it is used for evil much more often than it is used for good. |
24th March 2006, 08:29 AM
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Reps: 183,937,311 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by IronFire Yup, at first it seems the Bible is promoting communism...
...but notice nobody is forced to give their possesions away.
But see, your missing the whole point!
The point isn't that wellfare could/has/will/or would help people. The point is that it is wrong. Its certain people taking money from other people and giving to other people.
Again, the ends don't justify the means.
I'm not annoyed at those less fortunate. I'm annoyed at Christians who are for wellfare/big-government. Explain how welfare is "evil". If a woman has children with a man and is dependent on him and he's a wife beater should she be scorned because she's looking for welfare?The problem isn't big gov't. The problem is how programs are run. Rather than welfare being run to promote the institution of welfare it should be run to promote independence. Of course there are some people who will never be able to work, such as someone with sever schizophrenia, or a veteran who has been mentally damaged from a war. They make up a lot of the homeless and prison population you know. |
24th March 2006, 10:16 AM
|  | My life is for the kids who have it rough
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Reps: 8,762 (power: 20) | | | No, capitalism is not compatible with Christ.
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24th March 2006, 10:25 AM
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Reps: 183,937,311 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by graysparrow No, capitalism is not compatible with Christ. Can you please, explain why you believe that? |
24th March 2006, 10:31 AM
| | My life is for the kids who have it rough
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Reps: 8,762 (power: 20) | | Originally Posted by catlover Can you please, explain why you believe that?
Capitalism is, basically, based on greed with other considerations are made secondary. Wether is the enviroment or allowing people to starve, well that's too bad.
That's wholy incompatible with the commands of a God who calls you to love your brother as yourself.
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