| Hamartiology The forum to discuss the doctrine of sin, the origin of sin and how sin entered into the world. |
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13th November 2002, 07:35 PM
|  | Solus Christus
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Im having a little trouble on a subject. I understand that God is completely sovereign in everything. Meaning he has a hand in every action. I mean he has to other wise it woudl be destroyed, apart from God there is nothing. But I also understand that He's not the auther of sin. How does this work? How can he have complete control over everything but not be the author of sin. Im soo confused by this situation. I await your opinions and I hope your prayers as I try and find my way through this problem. 
 God Be Praised
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Aaron
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God Be Praised
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(Romans 6:6)For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. |
13th November 2002, 08:39 PM
|  | Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
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Originally posted by new2calvin
Im having a little trouble on a subject. I understand that God is completely sovereign in everything. Meaning he has a hand in every action. I mean he has to other wise it woudl be destroyed, apart from God there is nothing. But I also understand that He's not the auther of sin. How does this work? How can he have complete control over everything but not be the author of sin. Im soo confused by this situation. I await your opinions and I hope your prayers as I try and find my way through this problem.
God Be Praised
Hey new2calvin! 
We must remember that God is a lot more magnificant than we could even begin to grasp. I often hear Christians say that "God cannot be around evil." How silly is that? To assume that God could not be around something because it would tarnish Him is just the byproduct of not fully understanding the greatness of God. God is fully capable of creating evil but not being affected by it. The book of Job is a perfect example of how God created and actively controls all things, to include those things we see as evil, to the good of His children. All that it means when the Word says that God is not the author of sin is that God is not responsible for our sinful response to something that tempts us. But, remember, what is it that makes something sinful? What defines something as sin? God's Word. So, while He may not be the author (the source) of sinfulness, He definitely decides what trangresses the Law. The only thing that keeps us from responding sinfully to everything we come in contact with in the first place is God's grace, and He is under no obligation to restrain us by giving His grace. We respond according to our greatest desire or inclination at the moment. If our greatest desire at the time is to do something sinful, well, if God restrains us then we have been subject to His grace, not His obligation.
I hope that helps.
God bless,
Don
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"Apart from an acknowledgment of God's absolute, all encompassing sovereignty, there can be no true thanksgiving, praise, or childlike dependence upon Him. What a gracious thing that He has opened our eyes to behold with wonder His works. As John the Baptist said, a man can receive nothing except it be given him from heaven. How gracious He has been to us!" - One of my beloved brothers in the Lord Jesus |
13th November 2002, 08:50 PM
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | | hmm...what about the verses that say that God doesnt tempt...but if he controls all doesnt that mean that he does. James 1:12-14
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Aaron
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(Romans 6:6)For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord. |
13th November 2002, 08:59 PM
| | Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
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Reps: 165,729,489,790,412,576 (power: 165,729,489,790,436) | | Originally posted by new2calvin
hmm...what about the verses that say that God doesnt tempt...but if he controls all doesnt that mean that he does. James 1:12-14
This whole concept tends to get a bit difficult to understand. Basically, God orchestrates all things to bring about the sanctification of His children and their being conformed to the image of His Son. Is it God's Plan that you encounter difficult people? Absolutely. How else would you learn the godly attributes of love, patience, longsuffering, compassion, kindness, etc if you never encountered anyone with whom you employed these behaviors? Could God have just made us patient and loving and longsuffering? Sure. But He didn't. This is how He chose to do it. Now, since we know that it is by God's design that we encounter tribulations and trials, and as it says in James, we should be joyful when we "fall into various trials," how do we reconcile this? Well, is God responsible for the way you respond to that difficult situation? Or are you commanded, and equipped, to respond in godliness but just haven't quite learned to put off the old man (autopilot/automatic response) and respond in faith (according to God's Word)? Now, did God bring that temptation into your life? Yes. Is He responsible for how you respond? No.
Hope that helps.
God bless,
Don
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"Apart from an acknowledgment of God's absolute, all encompassing sovereignty, there can be no true thanksgiving, praise, or childlike dependence upon Him. What a gracious thing that He has opened our eyes to behold with wonder His works. As John the Baptist said, a man can receive nothing except it be given him from heaven. How gracious He has been to us!" - One of my beloved brothers in the Lord Jesus |
23rd November 2002, 05:11 AM
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Reps: 58 (power: 0) | | | The topic is more appropriately discussed here. Moved from Soteriology.
__________________ * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * But when the kindness and the love of God our Savior toward man appeared, not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to His mercy He saved us, through the washing of regeneration and renewing of the Holy Spirit, whom He poured out on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Savior, that having been justified by His grace we should become heirs according to the hope of eternal life.
Titus 3:4-7 (NKJV)
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26th November 2002, 07:21 PM
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Reps: 14 (power: 0) | | | God is in control, but that doesn't mean that He makes everything happen. You can be the president of the company but not be the one entering orders into the system. You're in control, but there are things going on that you ALLOW to happen, yet you're not directly responsible. God gave mankind the dominion in the earth - Gen. 1:26-28, and so we ALLOWS us to exercise that dominion. The problem is that when Adam sinned, He gave his dominion over to the devil. That's why the Bible calls satan the "god of this world" - 2 Cor. 4:4
So, God allows sin, but that doesn't mean that He was author of it. It is never God's will that people are sick, that anyone should perish, or anything bad. But, because of satan and Adam, sin entered into the world and God would be going back on His own Word if He stepped in and put a total stop to it.
New2Calvin, you asked how God could be over everything but not have authored sin. I hope what I've said helps. The CEO of American Airlines may have been over the flights that crashed into the WTC but that didn't mean that He did it or that He caused it... But the truth is, those planes were under his authority. Hmmm....
I love you and God bless!
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"Now unto Him who is able to do exceeding abundantly above all that we ask or think, according to the power that worketh in us..." - Ephesians 3:20 |
26th November 2002, 08:45 PM
| | Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
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Reps: 165,729,489,790,412,576 (power: 165,729,489,790,436) | | Originally posted by mellymell
God is in control, but that doesn't mean that He makes everything happen. You can be the president of the company but not be the one entering orders into the system. You're in control, but there are things going on that you ALLOW to happen, yet you're not directly responsible. God gave mankind the dominion in the earth - Gen. 1:26-28, and so we ALLOWS us to exercise that dominion. The problem is that when Adam sinned, He gave his dominion over to the devil. That's why the Bible calls satan the "god of this world" - 2 Cor. 4:4
So, God allows sin, but that doesn't mean that He was author of it. It is never God's will that people are sick, that anyone should perish, or anything bad. But, because of satan and Adam, sin entered into the world and God would be going back on His own Word if He stepped in and put a total stop to it.
New2Calvin, you asked how God could be over everything but not have authored sin. I hope what I've said helps. The CEO of American Airlines may have been over the flights that crashed into the WTC but that didn't mean that He did it or that He caused it... But the truth is, those planes were under his authority. Hmmm....
I love you and God bless!
Hey mellymell!
I just wanted to say that it is a bit incongruous to compare the supreme, sovereign, omnipotent Creator of all things created to a human CEO of a company. I don't agree with your opinion but you are obviously entitled to it. I just wanted to point out that comparing impotent man to omnipotent God sometimes puts God into a very human box.
God bless
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"Apart from an acknowledgment of God's absolute, all encompassing sovereignty, there can be no true thanksgiving, praise, or childlike dependence upon Him. What a gracious thing that He has opened our eyes to behold with wonder His works. As John the Baptist said, a man can receive nothing except it be given him from heaven. How gracious He has been to us!" - One of my beloved brothers in the Lord Jesus |
26th November 2002, 09:26 PM
|  | Luther's Dog
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | | I think it is important to again make the distinction between God's sovereign will and His moral will. It is not in God's moral will hat we sin however it is in Sovereign will. God let's sin occur. If he did not want it to occur it would not. God let's the devil exist. If He did not want the devil to exist he would not. God is in control of every action. However God does not will us to sin. God gives us a choice to sin or not while still remaining soveriegnly in ontrol and tells us not to sin. However He knows when and how we will do it and He allows us to do it. He does not make me do it but again if He id not allow it to occur it would not.
This is one of those questions in which we can speculate on but we will not know fully "unitl we are fully known." (1 cor 13) Until then all are speculations are incomplete and we are all puttig God in a box in some ways. Basically speculaton is not bad but we need to remember that we will can't on this erth fully understand His Him or His ways.
So God is completely sovereign over all things and actions but we as humans do have choices and are responsible for the evil we commit. |
27th November 2002, 03:12 AM
| | Non nobis domine sed tuo nomine da gloriam
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So God is completely sovereign over all things and actions but we as humans do have choices and are responsible for the evil we commit.
As difficult as that is to understand that is absolutely true. Well said! 
God bless
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"Apart from an acknowledgment of God's absolute, all encompassing sovereignty, there can be no true thanksgiving, praise, or childlike dependence upon Him. What a gracious thing that He has opened our eyes to behold with wonder His works. As John the Baptist said, a man can receive nothing except it be given him from heaven. How gracious He has been to us!" - One of my beloved brothers in the Lord Jesus |
27th November 2002, 10:32 AM
| | Luther's Dog
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Reps: 10 (power: 0) | | Originally posted by Reformationist As difficult as that is to understand that is absolutely true. Well said!
God bless
Who said I understood it?  Really I understand it as much as I can and will continue to try to understand it more and more however I have to let God be God and trust in Him. He has told us thtrough the Bible what He is and that can be hard to figure out sometimes but how He is what He is is too hard for me to grasp. Reformanist I will make a deal with you and new2calvin. When we all get to Heaven  we will go to God together and have Him explain this to us. We have all of eternity to learn about Him. | | |
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