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  #31  
Unread 6th March 2006, 08:36 PM
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Here' is my experience..I have been around these things since I came to Christ in 1973. I have seen some strange things so I am leary if I go for payer and someone "pushes" on my head.. We'l I have been struggling with pornography for 35 years and was being divorced be to by my wife.. I was desperate to change so I went to a deliverance service... I practicaaly ran to the front after he was done preaching... He "very" lightly touched me with annointing oil and bam I just turned to jelly and was flat on my back in a heartbeat with no one around . I was aware of him on his knees with his hand on my forehead and I just felt cleansed and peaceful and got up and went to my seat .. I went home floating as the best I could describe it. I KNEW I was changed. I could surf the net and avoid going to porn sites. My wife still divorced me but I still had this incredible breakthru in my walk with the Lord..I have been porn free for over 5 years ..Praise God..Kim
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  #32  
Unread 6th March 2006, 08:58 PM
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Dearest to Christ Jacquidube,

Originally Posted by jacquidube
Im not sure what to feel about being slain in the spirit. I went to another church last night and people were just falling down, apparently under the spirit of God. It felt to me like people were using their own emotions to let this happen to them. One person started then others followed. Some looked in pain............ mmmmmmmm. I dont know.
What are other peoples opinions on this please.
It is entirely possible that these people were overcome by their emotions,.. But it is equally possible that they were overcome by the Holy Spirit. I would not worry about this phenomenon too much. The Kingdom of God does not consists in 'falling under the Spirit's power' (I like to us that term instead of slain) or not. Also God knows your heart, and won't force anything on you that you won't be able to handle.

I have been to many, many charismatic/pentecostal events and I have seen the most outrages things you could imagine, but I have also seen what I believe is the genuine work and Presence of God's Holy and Life-giving Spirit. Falling under His influence is not at all imposible. It is neither good nor bad, sometimes extra-ordinary things happen to us when we are confronted with the extra-ordinary God.

However, if it scares you, simply stay away from it. You don't have to participate. You can inform yourself by some reading if you wish:

1. Francis MacNutt "Overcome by the Spirit"

2. Guy Chevreau "Catch the Fire"

3. Morton T. Kelsey "Discernment a Study in Ecstacy and Evil"

4. James DG Dunn "Jesus and the Spirit"

Perhaps these will help you develop a balanced view towards this phenomenon. It may also help you deal with your fear of these phenomena. The spiritual realm is closely tied to the emotional, and one needs to be aware of this. Emotion and experience are not bad in themselves, they are necessary even,.. But emotionalism is taking it too far.

The charismatic/pentecostal forum may even be able to share some positive experiences with this phenomenon, just be careful for extremism either way. As an Orthodox Christian, I would of course say that such phenomena are extra-ordinary and may distract you from what really matters,.. Your walk with Jesus Christ your God and your Savior. Whatever prevents you from growing into this, you would need to avoid for now. Even good things, at the wrong time, are bad for you.

Perhaps the readings I suggested may help you find peace with this and will be some help to guide you on your way.

IC XC

Grigorii
  #33  
Unread 6th March 2006, 09:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Katherine_van_Orvelte
I simply don't think the biblical evidence warrants it to be a constant expection. Not the way that it is used in Pentecostal churches as a preferred method of worship.

I don't think it should used as a standard of determining salvation.

I think using it as such a standard is a spiritually detrimental belief.

I think the expectation and the standard breeds a atmosphere of conformity.

That's what I think.



btw-
I wasn't referring to people forcing people to do anything. I was referring to forcing a biblical text to establish a practice it does not refer to.
Ok, I understand that but I hope you realize how I feel when there is something I believe in and I come to this thread and people are saying things like, satan worship, new age, people forcing something into the Bible that isn't there. They and you have totally ignored my testimony as to this being real and from God because I highly doubt that Satan is going to heal me and I highly doubt that he has the power to heal me even if he wanted to.

I have heard that this slain in the spirit was in evidence in the early church so most of the accounts of it will not be in the Bible. It was said that when men of God came into a city and preached they asked that the people refrain from sitting on the roof tops or in the trees because when the power of God came people would fall out of the trees and off of the houses.

You Catholics and Orthodoxies should know what I'm talking about. You all say that the Bible isn't the whole word of God but that some of the things you believe in can't always be pointed to directly in the Bible but is apart of tradition. So since this is the case with you why do you expect me or anybody else to point directly to a verse or story in the Bible as proof that this thing is biblical? And I have given one biblical account by the way and another poster gave a second account.
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  #34  
Unread 6th March 2006, 09:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Lynn73
I don't think it's biblical myself. I also was at a church once where they were doing this. The women would fall on the floor and the men would put cloths over their legs. I think it's more emotion than anything else, wanting something supernatural to happen. And, yes, I do believe in the supernatural and the workings of the Holy Spirit. I just doubt this is from the Spirit but that's me.
So the slain in the spirit I experienced wasn't from the Holy Spirit but my healing, which happend at the exact same time was?
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God didn't send His Son to pay for the forgiveness of your sin, and then decide He is going to require you to make installment payments. He only requires you to believe that the FULL PAYMENT was done, over 2000 yr. ago..........then you'll stop trying to make the installments on something you could never pay for anyway. The Good News is that you are debt free!
  #35  
Unread 6th March 2006, 09:28 PM
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Originally Posted by HisKid1973
Here' is my experience..I have been around these things since I came to Christ in 1973. I have seen some strange things so I am leary if I go for payer and someone "pushes" on my head.. We'l I have been struggling with pornography for 35 years and was being divorced be to by my wife.. I was desperate to change so I went to a deliverance service... I practicaaly ran to the front after he was done preaching... He "very" lightly touched me with annointing oil and bam I just turned to jelly and was flat on my back in a heartbeat with no one around . I was aware of him on his knees with his hand on my forehead and I just felt cleansed and peaceful and got up and went to my seat .. I went home floating as the best I could describe it. I KNEW I was changed. I could surf the net and avoid going to porn sites. My wife still divorced me but I still had this incredible breakthru in my walk with the Lord..I have been porn free for over 5 years ..Praise God..Kim
Kim,
I praise the Lord for your deliverance from porn. I fill that what you experienced was of the Holy Spirit. But I still do not see any clear Biblical references where the early disciples experienced being slain in the Spirit. I see no biblical bases for Benny Hinn type services where he waves his hand and the first two rows fall out. Some people have broken arms and legs from this.

I do believe we can experience the fullness of the Spirit. Most believers are not filled. We are commanded to be filled with the Holy Spirit. (Eph. 5:18) I think God has to bring a believer to the place of yielding to him to experience fullness.

God Bless
Greeker
  #36  
Unread 6th March 2006, 10:40 PM
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Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last


"... that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the Lord; so that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud; for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of God." (2 Chronicles 5:14)


So I arose and went out into the plain, and behold, the glory of the Lord stood there, like the glory which I saw by the River Chebar; and I fell on my face." (Ezekiel 3:23)


"Then He brought me by way of the north gate to the front of the temple; so I looked, and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord; and I fell on my face." (Ezekiel 44:4)
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Rom 10:8-10 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, [even] in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation.
  #37  
Unread 6th March 2006, 11:30 PM
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Originally Posted by Iollain
Rev 1:17 And when I saw him, I fell at his feet as dead. And he laid his right hand upon me, saying unto me, Fear not; I am the first and the last


"... that then the house was filled with a cloud, even the house of the Lord; so that the priests could not stand to minister by reason of the cloud; for the glory of the Lord had filled the house of God." (2 Chronicles 5:14)


So I arose and went out into the plain, and behold, the glory of the Lord stood there, like the glory which I saw by the River Chebar; and I fell on my face." (Ezekiel 3:23)


"Then He brought me by way of the north gate to the front of the temple; so I looked, and behold, the glory of the Lord filled the house of the Lord; and I fell on my face." (Ezekiel 44:4)
I am sorry but these saints fell on their face out of awe for God and worship. I don't see the teaching of slain in the Spirit in these passages. To say that that is what these verses teach is to read into them something that is not there. It is eisegensis.
  #38  
Unread 6th March 2006, 11:38 PM
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'the priests could not stand to minister '

Sounds like it to me.
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  #39  
Unread 7th March 2006, 12:13 AM
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Originally Posted by greeker57married
I am sorry but these saints fell on their face out of awe for God and worship. I don't see the teaching of slain in the Spirit in these passages. To say that that is what these verses teach is to read into them something that is not there. It is eisegensis.
Rev. 1:17 doesn't give a hint to whether John fell down at Jesus feet voluntarily or not so I don't think either one of us can say what exactly happend there for sure. The same goes for those other passages.

I went to Wiki and they gave Rev 1:17 as a possible "involuntary" slain in the Spirit but also gave 1 kings 8:10-11; Daniel 8:28, 10:8-11; Acts 9:3-4, 26:14 as possible events that show being slain in the spirit.

I don't have my Bible handy otherwise I would type them out, sorry.
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God didn't send His Son to pay for the forgiveness of your sin, and then decide He is going to require you to make installment payments. He only requires you to believe that the FULL PAYMENT was done, over 2000 yr. ago..........then you'll stop trying to make the installments on something you could never pay for anyway. The Good News is that you are debt free!

Last edited by nephilimiyr; 7th March 2006 at 12:19 AM.
  #40  
Unread 7th March 2006, 12:23 AM
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Originally Posted by nephilimiyr
You Catholics and Orthodoxies should know what I'm talking about. You all say that the Bible isn't the whole word of God but that some of the things you believe in can't always be pointed to directly in the Bible but is apart of tradition. So since this is the case with you why do you expect me or anybody else to point directly to a verse or story in the Bible as proof that this thing is biblical? And I have given one biblical account by the way and another poster gave a second account.
Good points here Neph. I think we veterans of GT are all used to pointing to Scripture to back up a belief of ours, only to be told we are misinterpreting it, or perhaps blindly following "traditions of men." I wish that people could stop making those types of retorts, and actually responding, actually explaining why they think another's interpretation of a passage is incorrect, in a respectful way.
We're (mostly) all adults here but unfortunately many don't act like it.

I think that a lot of what goes on at the charismatic/pentecostal services is that through preaching, song, or just the general vibe, people's minds are opened and they are hypersensitive to things. I think this is why some people fall down at a simple push. Crowd psychology does this.

It also makes one hypersensitive to the Holy Spirit. Often in life, we, through our sinful tendencies, block God out of certain areas of our life. We might know our Scripture and live moral lives but we all have problems with greed, pride, envy, lust, anger.... and these things can be a wall to block God out when He is reaching to us. This is why we spend our lives working toward sanctification, each and every day - we must experience conversion each and every day so we are more open to the Lord's grace.

Back to my point, when these services have the effect of letting down those walls around the heart, it is a lot easier for people to let the Holy Spirit do His work. And if this means healing people, or people shouting, or falling down, who are we to question the Holy Spirit?

We may believe some of these things are fake, but let's not assume. Our limited mental capacities should never presume that God cannot work where He wills.

My family is very good friends with a charismatic priest named Fr. Ralph Diorio. He has a healing ministry in Massachussetts. He has healed many people, including one of my best friend's sisters. She had stomach cancer, and while he was praying over her, she felt like an invisible hand reached into her stomach and took something out. When she went back to the doctor a few days later, the cancer had gone down about 80%. A few weeks later there was no trace of it ever having been there. The doctors had no scientific explanation for this. But I know it was God working through His servant. As Father D always says, "I don't do anything, God uses me."

One time Fr. D walked into our house and my grandmother was slain in the Spirit as soon as he walked in. Some people, whom God chooses to use in a certain way, have an aura of holiness around them that is literally palpable. It is the overwhelming presence of grace, so overwhelming that some people are literally knocked down by it.

I could go on and on about Father D, but I have said enough here.

One more thing, if you really want to know about the Pentecostals, and their reasons for their beliefs and practices, why not go ask them in their own forum? I promise they won't bite.
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