Sin what can we do about it?

Hi Everyone;
John said;
1Jo 3:3 And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure.
1Jo 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jo 3:5 And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jo 3:7 Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.
1Jo 3:8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
1Jo 3:10 In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother.

If we aren't careful here in our understanding we can easily be deceived. It is my understanding that we all still sin because Christ said "there is no man with out sin". Yet at the same time this passage above says that;
1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.
In fact I believe that this whole passage says what this one verse says. I'd really like to discuss it because it convicts my soul and cuts all the way to the bone. You see I still sin. I believe in Christ Jesus and I love him more than my life I have been baptized and know I have His Spirit with in myself. .Like Paul says what a wretched man I am who will save me from this body of sins. What???? please tell me What can I do to not sin any more. What please tell me what have I missed?

I do not want sin in my life yet it seems the harder I try not to sin. The more it doesn't work because, if I make it for a few days with out sinning I then become over whelmed with pride as if it was something I did. Pride is sin. Actually there is no good pride because all pride is sin
ILUVLIGHT

Hi everyone;
Isn't it strange how many are afraid to talk about something everyone does.
ILUVLIGHT

Hello Iluvlight.

Heavy topic. You posted "If we aren't careful here in our understanding we can easily be deceived...I'd really like to discuss it because it convicts my soul and cuts all the way to the bone. You see I still sin...please tell me What can I do to not sin any more. What please tell me what have I missed?

I do not want sin in my life yet it seems the harder I try not to sin. The more it doesn't work"

OK. You know that you are a sinner, and that even an Apostle like Paul was bothered with your question. Let's define sin. Sin is sin even when it is called a mistake, disobedience, debts, trepasses, transgression, iniquity, fault, unrighteousness, wrong. All are simply different ways of expressing the same idea: every sin is disobedience against God. 1 John 3:4; Romans 5:19; Romans 6:13. Sin came into the world and is now a part of man's nature by birth.

There are two kinds of sin. Original sin is the kind we inherit or originate with. It is an inheritance from Adam and Eve because of their sin and may best be described as the total corruption of our whole human nature. That is, by nature we are without true fear of God, or love and trust in Him. Man was created in true righteousness and holiness; this was his nature. Now he is without righteousness, is inclined only to evil, and by nature is spiritually dead. Other names for original sin are Old Adam or Old Man. Psalm 51:5; John 3:6; Ephesians 2:3; Romans 7:18; Romans 8:7.

Because we have original sin, we do actual sin. These sins is everything we do in thought, word or deed against the commandments of God. Actual sins are manifested in two ways - by sins of omission (not doing what should be done) or by commission (doing what should not be done). Actual sins may be committed either knowingly or unknowingly, but either way man stands in guilt before God. Matthew 7:17; James 1:15; James 4:17.

So Iluvlight, you were born a sinner and are still a sinner. Yes you are a Christian by virtue of your baptism. Because you were baptised your sins were forgiven (your sins of omission and commission were forgiven by God the Father on account of His love for His Son Jesus). You have been delivered from the power of death and the devil, and now have your eternal salvation decided.

Now, just because death has no power over you this doesn't mean you will not die. You just don't have to be afraid about dying because you know what will happen, you are going to heaven.

Now, just because the devil has no power over you this doesn't mean that he will not continue to tempt you.

Now, just because you sins are forgiven doesn't mean that you cease to be a sinner. BUT even though you will continue to be tempted, even though you continue to sin, even though you are not perfect (please realize that God's Word never told you that you would be perfect or without sin in this life, those are man made teachings which are contrary to what we are told in the Bible) you now, as a child of God, realize that sin also has no power over you.

Last thing, hope you've stuck with me far. You don't need to be cut to the bone any more. You had the facts but not the relationship of the facts. You will continue to sin and be a sinner, but that's overlaid with Christ. You can rest assured that God will not abandon you. Now, as a Christian, you will try and live your life in accordance with how God wants you to while at the same time realizing that when you sin (and you will) you will ask forgiven, will be forgiving, and will not lose your salvation.

Pax

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Colossians 2:6-8 "Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving. See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ."
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Hi BalaamsAss51;

Could you explain then how it is that this verse says;

1Jo 3:6 Whosoever abideth in him sinneth not: whosoever sinneth hath not seen him, neither known him.

If we are born of Him as in verse 9;
(1Jo 3:9 Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin

How is it that we who are born of God do not sin, and still not be in compliance with the Law?
Someone might ask, does this mean, because we are under Grace the Law has no power over us. as in;

Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

we are not under the Law and where there is no law there is no transgression?

Rom 4:15 Because the law worketh wrath: for where no law is, there is no transgression.

If the Law has no dominion over us because we are not under the Law then we sin no more because with out the dominion that the Law once had we now have no control from the Law. Yet at the same time we still admit that the Law is righteous and because we seek to be like Christ we out of Love practice righteousness for His names sake.
In your opinion (or anyone else that might like to add there two cents worth) is this still right? Is this what is meant by saying that those who are born of God do not commit sin? Is this the Grace we have been given in order that we not fail?
ILUVLIGHT

Hello Iluvlight.

Well, I'll try.

You wrote - "If the Law has no dominion over us because we are not under the Law then we sin no more because with out the dominion that the Law once had we now have no control from the Law. Yet at the same time we still admit that the Law is righteous and because we seek to be like Christ we out of Love practice righteousness for His names sake.
In your opinion (or anyone else that might like to add there two cents worth) is this still right? Is this what is meant by saying that those who are born of God do not commit sin? Is this the Grace we have been given in order that we not fail?"

First, grace is not a power given us so that we may do something. Grace is a free gift from God. It is His way of giving us release from the punishment due us for our sins. Those who are born of God, baptised, continue to sin. When the Bible says, like in the verses you quote, that we do not sin it does not mean that you as an individual stop committing sin. If it meant that then all Christians would have stopped sinning, and you know from your own life that is not the case. So it doesn't mean we no longer sin.

It means that God no longer sees our sin when He looks at us because He sees His Son instead. It's as simple as that. We sin, deserve eternal death, but this deserved punishment is not delivered to us because God no longer sees us sinning. He only sees the sinless Christ in our place.

We then, in our life, try and live that life in an increasing state of santification. We try and obey God's Law as best we can. We fail. We are not given any special powers to live perfect sinless lives. But we are sorry, ask forgiveness, and are forgiven. If the meaning of the verses are as you first put forth, that Christians do not sin, then why would they need to continue to repent and ask forgiveness???

Sin indeed has no dominion over us, true. But that doesn't mean it doesn't effect us. Now our Lord is Jesus, not the devil. Sin still affects us, but doesn't control us.

Pax

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Colossians 2:6-8 "Therefore, as you received Christ Jesus the Lord, so walk in him, rooted and built up in him and established in the faith, just as you were taught, abounding in thanksgiving. See to it that no one takes you captive by philosophy and empty deceit, according to human tradition, according to the elemental spirits of the world, and not according to Christ."
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And you always will, right down to your dying day. The day you stop sinning will be the day that you no longer need Christ as your Saviour.

I don't think you have missed anything. What you are coming to understand is that there are two natures within you - the old nature and the new. William Gadsby new the same experience;

"The new man and the old
By no means can agree;
The one in sin is bold,
From sin the other's free.
The principles of grace and sin
A constant warfare must maintain.

One loves to watch and pray,
And walk in Jesus' path;
The other hates the way,
And loves the road to death;
Christ is the new man's boast and joy;
Flesh does the old man satisfy.

Christ, and him crucified,
The new man loves to view;
Lust, vanity and pride,
The old man will pursue;
One pants with God to live and reign;
The other hates his sovereign name.

The principle of grace
On Jesus puts the crown;
But sin, with shameless face,
Would pull his glory down.
Jesus shall reign, the new man cries;
His right to reign the flesh denies.

Well, let old nature toil;
The warfare can't be long;
And Christians, with a smile,
Shall sing the conqueror's song;
Through Christ we shall victorious prove,
And live and reign with him above."

If you ever make it for a few days without sinning, you are a better man than I am and a better man than anyone I have ever known or heard of, except of course Christ Himself.

Can I take the liberty of recommending to you the writings of John Newton, William Gadsby and William Huntingdon. All three would meet your case.

On a personal note, I would like to say that your post moved me, because I find the same feelings in myself. I would love not to sin - I would love to live always as I should live - but I find something in me that will run after sin and will commit sin.

What is the solution? Look less at yourself, and more at Christ - think less about your own wretchedness and more about Christ's sufficiency. Martyn Lloyd-Jones (who I can also recommend) really shocked me when I read what he said - "any Christian who falls into sin is a fool". But he was right - because Christians have the ability to resist sin - not within themselves, though. If we spent more time looking to Christ, more time speaking to Him, more time reading His word, more time meditating on Him, we would sin far less.

To close - press on. Do not be discouraged. Fight on. Christ never promised you an easy passage through this world. You will find that your worst enemy is not the world or the Devil - it is your own self. But there is an answer - the blood and righteousness of Christ:

"Here's pardon for transgressions, past,
It matters not how black their cast,
And oh, my soul, with wonder view,
For sins to come here's pardon too."

"He which hath begun a good work in you will perform [it] until the day of Jesus Christ".

Peter

Hi PCWilkins;

If you ever make it for a few days without sinning, you are a better man than I am and a better man than anyone I have ever known or heard of, except of course Christ Himself.

You see as hard as I try my education has fail me in my composition of that post on the other thread. I still can say things in a way I didn't really mean. However I think you know it was meant as a sceanerio.
By the way I liked your solution.

What is the solution? Look less at yourself, and more at Christ

Interesting how complete short and to the point. thank you
ILUVLIGHT

BalaamsAss51;

If the meaning of the verses are as you first put forth, that Christians do not sin, then why would they need to continue to repent and ask forgiveness???

My self I ask for forgiveness because I have respect for my God, I don't want to allow my self to trample His payment for my sins. Also for my own peace of mind, to ease my conscience. Without confession our conscience becomes harden from be ignored. Soon with out the use of our "Conscience" we become entangled then we stop growing not to mention we greive the Holy Spirit by the sin.
I find that I'm like a dog on a leach. God has a hold on the leach. When I wonder to far, he corrects me with a tug on that leach. If I ignore the tug, His correction becomes more difficult to endure to say the least. This keeps up until I surrender to His will. This is where the conviction cuts me to the bone yet as PC Wilkins said I need to get my eyes off my self and back on Christ. It is through Christ that we accomplish anything in this life. We just aren't strong enough to do it with out Him.
ILUVLIGHT

Sinning is an option—and not a very good one! The Bible says not to do it, but many Christians don’t take the Bible seriously or they stumble over passages like Rom. 7:14-25 and allow the devil to persuade them that Paul was writing of his Christian experience when he wrote,

14. For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin.
15. For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.
16. But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.
17. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
18. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
19. For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.
20. But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
21. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.
22. For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,
23. but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
24. Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?
25. Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

The next time the devil tells you that this was Paul’s experience as a Christian and that you can’t do any better, ask the devil who sold Paul into sin after he was redeemed by the blood of the lamb.

Sinning is an option. 1 Cor. 10:13. No temptation has overtaken you but such as is common to man; and God is faithful, who will not allow you to be tempted beyond what you are able, but with the temptation will provide the way of escape also, so that you will be able to endure it.

1. What shall we say then? Are we to continue in sin so that grace may increase?
2. May it never be! How shall we who died to sin still live in it?
3. Or do you not know that all of us who have been baptized into Christ Jesus have been baptized into His death?
4. Therefore we have been buried with Him through baptism into death, so that as Christ was raised from the dead through the glory of the Father, so we too might walk in newness of life.
5. For if we have become united with Him in the likeness of His death, certainly we shall also be in the likeness of His resurrection,
6. knowing this, that our old self was crucified with Him, in order that our body of sin might be done away with, so that we would no longer be slaves to sin;
7. for he who has died is freed from sin.
8. Now if we have died with Christ, we believe that we shall also live with Him,
9. knowing that Christ, having been raised from the dead, is never to die again; death no longer is master over Him.
10. For the death that He died, He died to sin once for all; but the life that He lives, He lives to God.
11. Even so consider yourselves to be dead to sin, but alive to God in Christ Jesus.
12. Therefore do not let sin reign in your mortal body so that you obey its lusts,
13. and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin as instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members as instruments of righteousness to God.
14. For sin shall not be master over you, for you are not under law but under grace. (NASB, 1995, with my emphases in bold and enlarged type)

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John 8:31. So Jesus was saying to those Jews who had believed Him, "If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine;
32. and you will know the truth, and the truth will make you free."
33. They answered Him, "We are Abraham's descendants and have never yet been enslaved to anyone; how is it that You say, 'You will become free'?"
34. Jesus answered them, "Truly, truly, I say to you, everyone who commits sin is the slave of sin.
35. "The slave does not remain in the house forever; the son does remain forever.
36. "So if the Son makes you free, you will be free indeed. (NASB, 1995, with my emphases in bold and enlarged type)

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