| The Ancient Way - Eastern Orthodox The forum for Eastern Orthodox churches (such as Greek, Russian, Antiochian, etc). |
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19th January 2006, 07:54 PM
|  | Death to the world!
38    
| | Join Date: 4th October 2005 Location: Why? Why Georgia Why?
Posts: 6,056
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Reps: 15,295,480,149 (power: 15,295,494) | | | Clearly this employee has created a hostile workplace. No question there. My question was not regarding the employer's right to limit reading material... my question was more along the lines of... Is it ok to read scripture on the can? Is that disrespectful? Is it leaglism to think it is disrespectful?
I am an employer in the state of Georgia. I can tell you that in my state I can fire anyone for any reason whatsoever including no reason at all. I can fire someone because I do not like their new haircut. It really does not matter. So....
1 - Oblio is officially in a hostile work environment.
2 - He can take legal action.
3 - His employer can fire him for doing so as long as he does not explicitly state that as a reason.
4 - The guy that did this is a tool (power tool).
5 - it is a gamble to take any action at all without knowing what the employer's mindset might be.
__________________ Ἀνοίξω τὸ στόµα µου, καὶ πληρωθήσεται Πνεύµατος,
καὶ λόγον ἐρεύξοµαι τῇ βασιλίδι Μητρί·
καὶ ὀφθήσοµαι, φαιδρῶς πανηγυρίζων,
καὶ ᾄσω γηθόµενος,
ταύτης τὰ θαύµατα.
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19th January 2006, 08:18 PM
|  | Creed or Chaos
53  
 | | Join Date: 24th June 2003 Location: Georgia - USA
Posts: 23,485
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eoe,
I understood your question, and I don't know the answer. Just to flesh out the specifics, I am blessed to be able to have Orthodox worship items in my office, I even have an icon corner Kinda goes with working in an offsite field office. I would not want rock the boat as far as that goes.
__________________
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From the CF Dictionary:
Tradition of men: Biblical doctrine that I disagree with.
Word of God: My personal opinion.
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19th January 2006, 09:17 PM
|  | All that glitters is Cold . . .
| | Join Date: 4th October 2003
Posts: 1,342
Blessings: 73,852
Reps: 21,991,900,768,518,532 (power: 21,991,900,768,529) | | | Civil rights end on private property?!?
I agree with the one poster who said I can fire anyone at any time for anything - you sure can, but get your checkbook out. If you fire someone for, say, being black, could be a problem there.
That type of discrimination including religious discrimination is protected under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and I was speaking in general terms since I am fully aware of the limitations of the act. I am not aware of any case challenged yet due to a person privately bringing in a bible to read on their time or break time - most of the issues have stemmed from public display of religious material. And yes, there are qualifiers for this . . .but as the OP said this is getting off-topic
__________________
"Dang it, Morpheus, not everyone believes what you believe!"
"My beliefs do not require them to."
― Jason Lock and Morpheus |
19th January 2006, 09:29 PM
|  | Senior Veteran
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| | Join Date: 21st November 2005
Posts: 4,790
Blessings: 136,448
Reps: 80,892 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by eoe Clearly this employee has created a hostile workplace. No question there. My question was not regarding the employer's right to limit reading material... my question was more along the lines of... Is it ok to read scripture on the can? Is that disrespectful? Is it leaglism to think it is disrespectful?
I would never take Scripture into the bathroom. I'm not saying that I have some concrete iron clad reason based on Scripture or Tradition to hold that opinion, but I just don't feel the bathroom is an apporiate place for Scritpure. Nor would I agrue with someone that didn't see it as a big issue. I have zero problem reading theological works in the bathroom, just won't take a bible in there. I am an employer in the state of Georgia. I can tell you that in my state I can fire anyone for any reason whatsoever including no reason at all. I can fire someone because I do not like their new haircut. It really does not matter. So....
The problem is he has to take this to the employer before he could have any real chance of winning in court. Now, if they refused to do something about this then absolutely it would be a slam dunk. But if he doesn't offer them the chance to fix the problem there is nothing to be done, assuming the offending employee is a peer. Now if he is management that is a whole different ball game. |
19th January 2006, 09:34 PM
|  | Love is patient; love is kind; love does no evil
   
| | Join Date: 26th June 2003
Posts: 53,954
Blessings: 9,898,014 My Mood 
Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,840) | | | Do you think that sticky fingers ex-SDA thief took the bible from your icon stand?
__________________
O Theotokos and Virgin, Rejoice!
O Mary, Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
For thou hast borne the Savior of our souls.
+ + + + +
Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory Forever!
O Giver of Life, Glory to Thee!
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19th January 2006, 09:39 PM
| | Senior Veteran
30
| | Join Date: 21st November 2005
Posts: 4,790
Blessings: 136,448
Reps: 80,892 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Johannes De Silentio Civil rights end on private property?!?
I agree with the one poster who said I can fire anyone at any time for anything - you sure can, but get your checkbook out. If you fire someone for, say, being black, could be a problem there.
A black is a member of a protected class, this has nothing to do with the fact that an employer is completely free to tell you that you may not talk about religion, bring religious items to work, talk about politics, or bring political materials to work. In fact virutally every large employer has strict policy banning these types of items. That type of discrimination including religious discrimination is protected under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, and I was speaking in general terms since I am fully aware of the limitations of the act. I am not aware of any case challenged yet due to a person privately bringing in a bible to read on their time or break time - most of the issues have stemmed from public display of religious material. And yes, there are qualifiers for this . . .but as the OP said this is getting off-topic
No, his employment status cannot be changed, nor can he be fired for being a member of a religious group. However, that is where the protection ends. An employer is under no obligation to allow him to bring religious items to work, to talk about religion at work, or to give special treatment due to his religion (for example allowing Muslims extra breaks for required prayer times).
I don't think any employer would really care if someone brought a bible for their own personal use during break times. However, they are not under any legal obligation to allow it either.
Back to the topic, however, I would inform mangement of the issues related to this for a couple of reasons.
1.He had no right to deface your private property.
2.The anti-RCC website he directed you to and the defacement of your property could make this a hate crime. This would be akin to taking a black person's book and leaving the national alliance's URL in it. |
19th January 2006, 09:58 PM
| | All that glitters is Cold . . .
| | Join Date: 4th October 2003
Posts: 1,342
Blessings: 73,852
Reps: 21,991,900,768,518,532 (power: 21,991,900,768,529) | | Originally Posted by OnTheWay A black is a member of a protected class, this has nothing to do with the fact that an employer is completely free to tell you that you may not talk about religion, bring religious items to work, talk about politics, or bring political materials to work. In fact virutally every large employer has strict policy banning these types of items.
No, his employment status cannot be changed, nor can he be fired for being a member of a religious group. However, that is where the protection ends. An employer is under no obligation to allow him to bring religious items to work, to talk about religion at work, or to give special treatment due to his religion (for example allowing Muslims extra breaks for required prayer times).
I don't think any employer would really care if someone brought a bible for their own personal use during break times. However, they are not under any legal obligation to allow it either.
One protected by race, one protected by religion. Everything you have described is protected under Title VII. Legally the employer has to accomodate the individual within reason. Title VII makes no provision whatsoever against political statements - the would-be bible carrier is also in a protected class ( race, color, sex, national origin, religion). Under Title VII, an employer must reasonably accommodate an employee’s religion unless doing so would create an “undue hardship.”
__________________
"Dang it, Morpheus, not everyone believes what you believe!"
"My beliefs do not require them to."
― Jason Lock and Morpheus |
19th January 2006, 10:12 PM
|  | like unto bees about a honeycomb
35
| | Join Date: 3rd February 2004 Location: some crummy town
Posts: 2,051
Blessings: 112,690
Reps: 7,330 (power: 19) | | | Wow! This website is unbelievable! This is the kind of stuff that would make Jack Chick say "don't you think you're a little extreme?"!
Rdr Moses - servant of Baal
ps- how do these yahoos know so much about Babylonian religion?
__________________ أيتها الفائقُ قدسُها والدةُ الإلهِ خلِّصينا
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قدوس الله، قدوس القوي، قدوس الذي لا يموت ارحمنا |
19th January 2006, 10:17 PM
| | Creed or Chaos
53
| | Join Date: 24th June 2003 Location: Georgia - USA
Posts: 23,485
Blessings: 267,290
Reps: 47,556 (power: 80) | | Originally Posted by Aria Do you think that sticky fingers ex-SDA thief took the bible from your icon stand?
I thought of that, though I can't be sure I didn't leave it there myself. The quandry is that if I left it behind then it could be considered lost property that he claimed, but as it had anti-RC notes left in it, it is clear that he knew that it belonged to me, and the only way he could know that is he has either seen it on my stand, or he took it from there, as I don't think he has ever seen me carry it. Also, the notes, especially the website address, were clearly left to proselytise the owner. There is also the off chance that it was a member of the cleaning crew, of whom I know nothing about, I may see if I can match the printing of the notes with samples from my suspect.
__________________
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From the CF Dictionary:
Tradition of men: Biblical doctrine that I disagree with.
Word of God: My personal opinion.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
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19th January 2006, 10:20 PM
| | Love is patient; love is kind; love does no evil
| | Join Date: 26th June 2003
Posts: 53,954
Blessings: 9,898,014 My Mood
Reps: 9,223,372,036,854,775,808 (power: 9,223,372,036,854,840) | | Originally Posted by Oblio I thought of that, though I can't be sure I didn't leave it there myself. The quandry is that if I left it behind then it could be considered lost property that he claimed, but as it had anti-RC notes left in it, it is clear that he knew that it belonged to me, and the only way he could know that is he has either seen it on my stand, or he took it from there, as I don't think he has ever seen me carry it. Also, the notes, especially the website address, were clearly left to proselytise the owner. There is also the off chance that it was a member of the cleaning crew, of whom I know nothing about, I may see if I can match the printing of the notes with samples from my suspect.
oooooh. The plot thickens.
We have a new Sherlock Holmes in TAW.
__________________
O Theotokos and Virgin, Rejoice!
O Mary, Full of Grace,
The Lord is with thee.
Blessed art thou among women,
And blessed is the fruit of thy womb,
For thou hast borne the Savior of our souls.
+ + + + +
Glory to Jesus Christ!
Glory Forever!
O Giver of Life, Glory to Thee!
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