Origins TheologyForum for the discussion of Creation Science (Young/Old) vs Theistic Evolution. Discussion of Atheistic Evolution should be taken to the Discussion and Debate forums.
Well holy cow, now we are not just moving goal posts around we are moving the entire soccer field about. Speciation is not evolution, since when?
Since YECs ran out of straws to grasp at?
Hehe. I just did a google seach on " speciation is not evolution." it seems that a lot of creationist websites are now making that claim. All I can say is WOW.
Which is one thing more than I can say... I'm speechless that this nonsense has actually spread.
Can you back that up ? Or, are you just acknowledging that "yeah speciation happens ok, but I still refuse to accept evolution".
Speciation does happen, this falls within the parameters discovered by Gregor Mendel and made into scientificlaw.
It is not creationists that moved the goalpost here- it is secular evolutionists who created a whole new playing field!!
Today we have any change occuring in all life as "the product of evolution". Evolution has become the equivalent of the Star Wars 'force"-- it encompasses all and guides and moves all life. Why eventhe definition of science has changed! It used to be the search for truth in the universe, now it is the search for truth by naturalistic means. I know I studied evolution before many on these threads were probably even born and know the changes made.
Speciation is predicted by both the evolutionary model and the creation model of life. Speciation when it occursd naturally is just basically a recombining of preexistent genetic material within a kind. Mice still produce mice- just a different kind of mice.
Evolution needs to answer the fish to lizard to bird scenario with more then just paper theories and debunked myths.
Speciation does happen, this falls within the parameters discovered by Gregor Mendel and made into scientificlaw.
It is not creationists that moved the goalpost here- it is secular evolutionists who created a whole new playing field!!
Today we have any change occuring in all life as "the product of evolution". Evolution has become the equivalent of the Star Wars 'force"-- it encompasses all and guides and moves all life. Why eventhe definition of science has changed! It used to be the search for truth in the universe, now it is the search for truth by naturalistic means. I know I studied evolution before many on these threads were probably even born and know the changes made.
Speciation is predicted by both the evolutionary model and the creation model of life. Speciation when it occursd naturally is just basically a recombining of preexistent genetic material within a kind. Mice still produce mice- just a different kind of mice.
Evolution needs to answer the fish to lizard to bird scenario with more then just paper theories and debunked myths.
did you have a specific fish to lizard to bird scenario in mind that you consider just a paper theory or debunked myth? What research are you referring to? Where did you read it? What have you done to become familiar with the evidence used to come to the conclusions you dismiss? What evidence do you use to dismiss it?
Please be specific.
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Last edited by notto; 21st February 2006 at 08:49 AM.
Here is a brief list of major universities that have entire departments (within their Science Faculties) devoted to teaching evolutionary thoery and conducting innovative research into evolution.
Are all these scientists and graduate students grossly misled, or just plain stupid? Maybe it's a conspiracy?
And if it wasn't good science, don't you think all the other scientists in other departments point that out ot them?
Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology, Princeton University www.eeb.princeton.edu/
Harvard University - Department of Organismic & Evolutionary Biology www.oeb.harvard.edu/
Cornell universtiy Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology www.eeb.cornell.edu
Rice Universtiy Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
eeb.rice.edu/
University of California, Irvine Dept of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
ecoevo.bio.uci.edu
Humanistic evolution taught in colleges...wow who would have thought. Just because the majority believe it to be true doesn't mean it is...
The 'science' of evolution is nothing short of a great delusion to lead people from the faith and belief in the one true G-d.
While you riducule the wisdom of men being foolish, I somehow doubt that when confronted with the true majesty and glory of our G-d and His Son, you will have the courage to tell Him to His face, "Your creation in six days days was allegorical leaving us with evolution as a truthful and legitimate science...more true that your word"
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The 'science' of evolution is nothing short of a great delusion to lead people from the faith and belief in the one true G-d.
So why is it taught at Christian institutions?
Where does it attempt to lead people from faith and belief in the one true God? I must have missed that in my studies or the technique wasn't very effective.
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Where does it attempt to lead people from faith and belief in the one true God? I must have missed that in my studies or the technique wasn't very effective.
The church was the one to originally grab onto evolution...as for you...well you apparently did miss something in your studies....you missed the power and majesty of the L-rd G-d of the Abraham Isaac and Jacob
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Men should be judged, not by the tint of their skin, the Gods they serve, the Vintage that they drink, nor by the way they fight, or love, or sin, but by the quality of the thought they think.
--Laurence Hope
Warriors dance along a knife edge, maintaining the balance of their totality...celebrating strength while keeping it rigidly under control, only bringing it to bear when it is appropriate and unavoidable.
well you apparently did miss something in your studies....you missed the power and majesty of the L-rd G-d of the Abraham Isaac and Jacob
How so? What would lead you to that conclusion about me? Why make comments like this (even with your winky). Why not simply answer the question?
Where does it attempt to lead people from faith and belief in the one true God?
Both Darwin and I must have missed that part. Can't you point out to us where it does this?
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Humanistic evolution taught in colleges...wow who would have thought. Just because the majority believe it to be true doesn't mean it is...
The 'science' of evolution is nothing short of a great delusion to lead people from the faith and belief in the one true G-d.
Actually the opposite is true, it's not evolution and the study of which leads people away from God, it's Kent Hovind and all the rest of the YEC ID crew who insist that black is white, and 2+2=5 in their mad efforts to twist science into a theory compatible with the biblical account.
You are probably not going to believe this but there isn't a scientists agenda hell bent on converting all christians to atheism, most scientists don't care . . . .and I can say this because I am one.
Indeed, I went to Bethel University (a very conservative school where Christianity is required of all professors), and they taught naturalistic evolution. Quite frankly, you can't teach Biology WITHOUT it. Although, I suppose you can argue that they're only teaching MICRO-evolution, nobody has ever found a mysterious force that somehow prevents small changes from accumulating into large changes.
Some creationists have repeatedly said that pre-existing genes can account for all changes and speciation that's observed. So I wonder, what happens when a cosmic ray hits a cell and causes a mutation? This happens at least 2-4 times in germ cells per generation (and every day in your body) so it's not uncommon.
Suddenly you have a gene that's slightly different -- it wasn't pre-existing! And the vast majority of these are neutral as the vast majority don't directly (or immediately) affect coding DNA. Even those that affect coding DNA are usually neutral. Start a thread on it if you're interested, and we can pull up some sources.
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