Home | Be a Christian | Devotionals | Join Us! | Forums | Rules | F.A.Q.


Go Back   Christian Forums > Society > Society > Physical & Life Sciences > Creation & Evolution
Register BlogsPrayersJobsArcade Calendar Mark Forums Read

Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.

Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 17th December 2005, 10:45 PM
TeddyKGB's Avatar
A dude playin' a dude disgused as another dude

36 Gender: Male Faith: Atheist Party: US-Others Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 18th July 2005
Location: Deep underground
Posts: 6,568
Blessings: 112,266
My Mood Pensive
Reps: 36,217,039 (power: 36,231)
TeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond repute
TeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Key
The idea here, for you to “Put me in my Place” as such, a requirement would have been for you to have studied Macro and Micro evolution, as such would have already known about the distinction between the two.

I do not believe in the Myth of Macro evolution, as such, it is not my place to “teach you” about the Myth your supposed to be supporting. I will admit that I have studied it, in both directions, but I have no desire to instruct it.
I think GWTH's was less "teach me about macroevolution" and more "what do you mean when you use the word."

In any case, "macro" and "micro" describe levels of abstraction; "microevolution" might be the nylon-eating bacteria, "macroevolution" might be the dino-to-bird transition. They are essentially arbitrary "distances" from which one sees common descent. There is no difference in mechanism between the two, and no honest biologist will tell you differently.
__________________
"Ray, if someone asks you if you're a god you say yes!" ~ Winston Zeddemore

I am Jack's total lack of god-belief.

Reply With Quote
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!

  #12  
Old 17th December 2005, 11:00 PM
Key's Avatar
The Opener of Locks

Gender: Male Married Faith: Non-Denominational Country: United States Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 10th April 2004
Posts: 3,006
Blessings: 76,121
My Mood Lurking
Reps: 2,218,311,396,410,815 (power: 2,218,311,396,423)
Key has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond repute
Key has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond repute
Wow!

Wow, Ok there was a lot responded to.

I am impressed that some many people responded, to some you, thank you very much for your responses.



Originally Posted by Notto
Read this:
http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/comdesc/

Feel free to point out the myth part.

(also, feel free to ask any questions you might have).

How much have you read about evolution in order to justify calling it a myth? Have you actually read or studied anything by a qualified biologist?

What what it?


Great site, Been there a few times.

But the fact that there is a web site that supports Macro Evolution, makes it no less true, then a web site that has support for the seven literal day creation, what is it your seeking to justify with this?

But this was funny: “The worldwide scientific research community from over the past 140 years has discovered that no known hypothesis other than universal common descent can account scientifically for the unity, diversity, and patterns of terrestrial life.”

This was just funny. Talk about an Appeal to Popularity.

The Best part is, Creationism, and ID, Both offer, equally Good, and Equally supported explanations.

The Alien Theory is also a great Theory involving the origins of life on this planet, and is a well supported as evolution, why is that one not here?

There were some great Theories regarding this, why is this “Evolution” the only one that is paid attention to?

Why is the Alien Generation Theory ignored?

Why the need for the earth to be a “Closed System” regarding this? Is the earth the only planet involved in this mess?

No! It is not.

So, it is plausible that other planets, and other life forms could have influenced our planet? Yes it is.

Now, there has been some great new steps in allowing for Alien life to have started our life on this planet, the most recent one being that tiny comets may have not only provided the water on this planet, but also the building blocks of life.

Wow, so, that looks like support that our planet was seeded by Alien DNA, and that looks like a great step into the acceptance of the Alien Theory.

I know why ID and Creationism are not allowed, Apparently there are a great deal of bigots that can’t allow “God” to be involved with their precious Religion of Science.



To your second question: have I studied Evolution?

Yes. From a few sides, from the Evolutionist side, The ID Side, and from the Creationist side. And some Fringe Science Sides, All have some good points, some better then others. All have some very weak points. Yes, form real biologist. But not only from Biologist, I am just like everyone else.

Lovely how people demand validation of peoples credentials when they say something that disagrees with them, and yet will accept anything by anyone that supports their view.

But I guess that is just “People” huh?



Originally Posted by Grengor
Macroevolution: A term made up by Creationists to try and deny evolution by labeling anything they see as "Micro", and anything we don't see is "macro".
So that is what they are teaching in the schools these days?

I Guess nothing replaces good scientific study like mindless propaganda and hate speech.

This was a lovely “Poisoning the Well” attack. Lovely, Completely worthless and if the best you have to offer is this, then you really have nothing to offer huh?



Originally Posted by Guywiththehead
Don't forget that all forms of evolution observed in the future will automatically become microevolution.
Another Lovely Fallacy, I believe that this is a Hasty Generalization logical fallacy.

This might be a Sweeping Generalization also.

Either way, it is little more then a fictional statement in some vain hope to just drop ridicule at those that disagree with your POV. Pity, I thought there was going to be some more real value to this.



God Bless

Key.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 17th December 2005, 11:08 PM
Key's Avatar
The Opener of Locks

Gender: Male Married Faith: Non-Denominational Country: United States Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 10th April 2004
Posts: 3,006
Blessings: 76,121
My Mood Lurking
Reps: 2,218,311,396,410,815 (power: 2,218,311,396,423)
Key has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond repute
Key has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond reputeKey has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by TeddyKGB
I think GWTH's was less "teach me about macroevolution" and more "what do you mean when you use the word."

In any case, "macro" and "micro" describe levels of abstraction; "microevolution" might be the nylon-eating bacteria, "macroevolution" might be the dino-to-bird transition. They are essentially arbitrary "distances" from which one sees common descent. There is no difference in mechanism between the two, and no honest biologist will tell you differently.
This is a lovely, I believe this Wishful thinking,. maybe a touch of Poisinig the Well, it might even been "Guilt by Assoication.

The Idea here is, you have alerady denounced any one, regardless of credentials, history, skill, or study, who disgarees with you, to be "Dishonist"

Are you wrong?

Yes, You are.

This is little more then a imposed view you posses with no validy to back it up.

God Bless
Key.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 17th December 2005, 11:31 PM
gluadys's Avatar
Legend

Gender: Female Faith: Protestant Party: CA-NDP Country: Canada Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 2nd March 2004
Location: Toronto
Posts: 12,178
Blessings: 67,686
Reps: 15,520,757,636,276,026 (power: 15,520,757,636,298)
gluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond repute
gluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond reputegluadys has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Key
The Story that an established life form can via natural reproduction can increase or decrease its DNA structure to become a completely different established life form is fictional.
You are correct. No form of life can become so changed that it becomes a completely different established life form. But what does that have to do with evolution?

It is essential to the theory of evolution that all descendant species retain some characteristics of ancestral species, so "completely different" species do not occur. Evolution is, as Darwin stated, "descent with modification". It is not a start over from scratch process.

And no species ever becomes another already established species. Each follows its own unique evolutionary pathway.

So you are correct in your description of such an event as fiction. But so what? That is not what "macro"-evolution is.
__________________
"Either we've got to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy - and then admit that we just don't wanna do it." Steve Colbert
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 17th December 2005, 11:34 PM
notto's Avatar
Legend

43 Gender: Male Faith: UnitedChurchOfChrist Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 31st May 2002
Posts: 11,095
Blessings: 73,809
Reps: 33,621 (power: 56)
notto is a splendid one to beholdnotto is a splendid one to beholdnotto is a splendid one to behold
notto is a splendid one to beholdnotto is a splendid one to beholdnotto is a splendid one to beholdnotto is a splendid one to beholdnotto is a splendid one to beholdnotto is a splendid one to behold
You still haven't touched on the 'myth' part yet. You seem to simply be using words like 'falicy', 'wishful thinking', and such, but still have not pointed out why the broad science that is involved with the theory of evolution and is accepted by scientists worldwide regardless of their faith, nationality, or age, is a myth.

Please point out what is mythical about it and what evidence or alternative you have that show the scientific consensus related to evolution is wrong. Saying that ID or creationist ideas are as widely supported is silly. They are fringe and are religious positions. Your going to need a bit more meat on your argument to make a credible case that evolution is a myth that is accepted by the scientific community the world over. It's you againt the world. What have you got?

Nothing but handwaving so far.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
aclufightsforchristians com
NEWSFLASH: Today, 6,000,000 teachers in the US didn't do anything illegal
God is Still Speaking,
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 17th December 2005, 11:35 PM
Grengor's Avatar
GrenAce

24 Gender: Male Faith: Deist Party: US-Republican Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 10th May 2005
Location: Oakley, California
Posts: 3,044
Blessings: 68,064
My Mood Fine
Reps: 2,393 (power: 14)
Grengor is a glorious beacon of lightGrengor is a glorious beacon of lightGrengor is a glorious beacon of lightGrengor is a glorious beacon of lightGrengor is a glorious beacon of lightGrengor is a glorious beacon of lightGrengor is a glorious beacon of lightGrengor is a glorious beacon of lightGrengor is a glorious beacon of lightGrengor is a glorious beacon of lightGrengor is a glorious beacon of lightGrengor is a glorious beacon of lightGrengor is a glorious beacon of light
Originally Posted by Key

But the fact that there is a web site that supports Macro Evolution, makes it no less true, then a web site that has support for the seven literal day creation, what is it your seeking to justify with this?
They've got references to their arguments. It's not the fact that they support "macro" evolution, it's the fact that they have actual science behind their arguments.

Originally Posted by Key
But this was funny: “The worldwide scientific research community from over the past 140 years has discovered that no known hypothesis other than universal common descent can account scientifically for the unity, diversity, and patterns of terrestrial life.”

This was just funny. Talk about an Appeal to Popularity.
Not so. It's stating the current stance of Evolution within the scientific community. No other theory was or is as sound as Evolution to describe the bio-diversity of life.

Originally Posted by Key
The Best part is, Creationism, and ID, Both offer, equally Good, and Equally supported explanations.
Again, no so. There's a difference between a scientific theory and a layman's theory. An argument from incredulity is not scientific evidence.

Originally Posted by Key
The Alien Theory is also a great Theory involving the origins of life on this planet, and is a well supported as evolution, why is that one not here?
What evidence do we have that shows aliens influenced abiogenesis?

Originally Posted by Key
There were some great Theories regarding this, why is this “Evolution” the only one that is paid attention to?

Why is the Alien Generation Theory ignored?
I have never heard of it, what is it? Just ID with aliens being the designer?

Originally Posted by Key
Why the need for the earth to be a “Closed System” regarding this? Is the earth the only planet involved in this mess?

No! It is not.
So, it is plausible that other planets, and other life forms could have influenced our planet? Yes it is.

Now, there has been some great new steps in allowing for Alien life to have started our life on this planet, the most recent one being that tiny comets may have not only provided the water on this planet, but also the building blocks of life.

Wow, so, that looks like support that our planet was seeded by Alien DNA, and that looks like a great step into the acceptance of the Alien Theory.
Again, what are you talking about?

Originally Posted by Key
I know why ID and Creationism are not allowed, Apparently there are a great deal of bigots that can’t allow “God” to be involved with their precious Religion of Science.
I'm sorry, but you're wrong again. ID and Creationism are not allowed in the science classroom because they're not science. They fail miserably on falsifiability, the scientific method, and evidence. I've never seen a single shred of valid pro-Creationism evidence.

P.S. Science is not a religion, Evolution is not a religion. There's the methodic naturalistic philosophy that is applied to science, but that's required for us to learn about our universe.




Originally Posted by Key
Lovely how people demand validation of peoples credentials when they say something that disagrees with them, and yet will accept anything by anyone that supports their view.
Sources? Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence. If someone comes in and says "My name is John" I have no reason to not believe them, it's not a big deal. Apply the same to "All of your names are actually John", and we have a problem.

Originally Posted by Key
So that is what they are teaching in the schools these days?

I Guess nothing replaces good scientific study like mindless propaganda and hate speech.
Should the bridging of quantum mechanics and relativity be discussed in the classroom? No, you leave it for the scientists to work out, and based on their professional findings, the standards are set. We've all been indoctrinated into history and mathematics as well.

[quote=Key]
This was a lovely “Poisoning the Well” attack. Lovely, Completely worthless and if the best you have to offer is this, then you really have nothing to offer huh?[quote=Key]
Based on my experiences, I draw that conclusion. I've never once seen those terms used except in the way I described.

Originally Posted by Key
Another Lovely Fallacy, I believe that this is a Hasty Generalization logical fallacy.

This might be a Sweeping Generalization also.

Either way, it is little more then a fictional statement in some vain hope to just drop ridicule at those that disagree with your POV. Pity, I thought there was going to be some more real value to this.
Eh, it might. But I've personally seen that kind of argument applied to other things by Young Earth Creationists, so why wouldn't it be applied to here?
Our "sweeping generalizations" are grounded in our experience, if you're saying you're not going to be like most other YECs(Young Earth Creationists) that are represented on these forums, then OK.
BTW, what's a POV?
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 18th December 2005, 12:14 AM
Ryal Kane's Avatar
Senior Veteran

33 Gender: Male Faith: Atheist Country: New Zealand Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 21st April 2004
Location: Hamilton
Posts: 3,763
Blessings: 2,060,210
Reps: 66,416,635,527,034,832 (power: 66,416,635,527,047)
Ryal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond repute
Ryal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond reputeRyal Kane has a reputation beyond repute
POV

Point Of View
__________________
From childhoods hour I have not been
as others were. I have not seen
as others saw. I could not bring
my passions from a common spring.
From the same source I have not taken
my sorrow. I could not awaken
my heart to joy at the same tone.
All I loved, I loved alone. Edgar Allen Poe
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 18th December 2005, 12:35 AM
TeddyKGB's Avatar
A dude playin' a dude disgused as another dude

36 Gender: Male Faith: Atheist Party: US-Others Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 18th July 2005
Location: Deep underground
Posts: 6,568
Blessings: 112,266
My Mood Pensive
Reps: 36,217,039 (power: 36,231)
TeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond repute
TeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond reputeTeddyKGB has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Key
This is a lovely, I believe this Wishful thinking,. maybe a touch of Poisinig the Well, it might even been "Guilt by Assoication.

The Idea here is, you have alerady denounced any one, regardless of credentials, history, skill, or study, who disgarees with you, to be "Dishonist"

Are you wrong?

Yes, You are.

This is little more then a imposed view you posses with no validy to back it up.
Ah, well. Sometimes I let my ego get the best of me.

So here's an idea: Drop the end of that last sentence, read the rest of the post again, then give me a critique that doesn't rely on nit-picking at a minor remark and handwaving at the remainder.
__________________
"Ray, if someone asks you if you're a god you say yes!" ~ Winston Zeddemore

I am Jack's total lack of god-belief.

Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 18th December 2005, 01:01 AM
MewtwoX's Avatar
Veteran

26 Gender: Male Faith: Atheist Party: CA-Liberals Country: Canada Member For 5 Years Watchman
 
Join Date: 11th December 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,358
Blessings: 1,057,183
My Mood Happy
Reps: 56,320,602,912,654 (power: 56,320,602,921)
MewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond repute
MewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Key
Wow, Ok there was a lot responded to.

I am impressed that some many people responded, to some you, thank you very much for your responses.



[/font][/color]

Great site, Been there a few times.

But the fact that there is a web site that supports Macro Evolution, makes it no less true, then a web site that has support for the seven literal day creation, what is it your seeking to justify with this?
Shouldn't you focus on the arguments and not the website? They didn't point you there to see there were websites advocating Evolution. They pointed you there to see refutations of common creationsit arguments.

Originally Posted by Key
But this was funny: “The worldwide scientific research community from over the past 140 years has discovered that no known hypothesis other than universal common descent can account scientifically for the unity, diversity, and patterns of terrestrial life.”

This was just funny. Talk about an Appeal to Popularity.
Was that used to justify Evolution as truth, or just a statement? You make some big assumptions here. Have to be a little more careful with throwing fallacies about.

Originally Posted by Key
The Best part is, Creationism, and ID, Both offer, equally Good, and Equally supported explanations.
I have yet to see this. Both Creationism and ID fail to adhere to the Scientific Method, so they aren't science (I haven't seen any empirical evidence of them either...). As for being logical... Creationism has no supporting logic other than faith (which doesn't move those without faith, or those who hold Genesis as metaphorical) and ID just offers A generic Design argument (which, I should mention fails horribly when put to logical criticism).

Originally Posted by Key
The Alien Theory is also a great Theory involving the origins of life on this planet, and is a well supported as evolution, why is that one not here?

There were some great Theories regarding this, why is this “Evolution” the only one that is paid attention to?

Why is the Alien Generation Theory ignored?

Why the need for the earth to be a “Closed System” regarding this? Is the earth the only planet involved in this mess?

No! It is not.

So, it is plausible that other planets, and other life forms could have influenced our planet? Yes it is.
May I note that you're talking about Abiogenesis (origin of life), which has little to do with Evolution. By proposing this argument you commit a Non-sequitur.

Originally Posted by Key
Now, there has been some great new steps in allowing for Alien life to have started our life on this planet, the most recent one being that tiny comets may have not only provided the water on this planet, but also the building blocks of life.

Wow, so, that looks like support that our planet was seeded by Alien DNA, and that looks like a great step into the acceptance of the Alien Theory.
Citations? I don't think this evidence stands up to scientific scrutiny...

Originally Posted by Key
I know why ID and Creationism are not allowed, Apparently there are a great deal of bigots that can’t allow “God” to be involved with their precious Religion of Science.
Let's look at a generic theory: A exists by the will of God.

Now, falsify God.

...

...

...

Can't do it, can you? Now you see one of the reasons why Creationism and ID aren't science and thus aren't in science classes.

Note that I say science classes, which means they can be taught in religion and philosophy classes. They are valid here, but because they do not even adhere to the structure of a scientific hypothesis, they cannot be brought into a science class.


Originally Posted by Key
To your second question: have I studied Evolution?

Yes. From a few sides, from the Evolutionist side, The ID Side, and from the Creationist side. And some Fringe Science Sides, All have some good points, some better then others. All have some very weak points. Yes, form real biologist. But not only from Biologist, I am just like everyone else.

Lovely how people demand validation of peoples credentials when they say something that disagrees with them, and yet will accept anything by anyone that supports their view.

But I guess that is just “People” huh?
You're jumping to conclusions. People asked you this question to see how much background information you have on the Theory of Evolution. It's usually a good indicator in how to go about teaching a person the facts (How you go about debating a Bsc is different from how you go about debating a Freshman High schooler).


Originally Posted by Key
So that is what they are teaching in the schools these days?

I Guess nothing replaces good scientific study like mindless propaganda and hate speech.
Extrapolation from a wrongful assumption, nothing new must be added here.

Originally Posted by Key
This was a lovely “Poisoning the Well” attack. Lovely, Completely worthless and if the best you have to offer is this, then you really have nothing to offer huh?
Why do you say that? Besides being another extrapolation from your original wrongful assumption, the above query isn't any claim towards the person being untrustworthy. Neither was it made in any reference to an argument. You make way too many assumptions based on percieved future discussion in this topic.


Originally Posted by Key
Another Lovely Fallacy, I believe that this is a Hasty Generalization logical fallacy.

This might be a Sweeping Generalization also.

Either way, it is little more then a fictional statement in some vain hope to just drop ridicule at those that disagree with your POV. Pity, I thought there was going to be some more real value to this.
Several times in your argument, you've quoted jokes and proposed them to be arguments. This is one such case. Throwing fallacies around whenever someone speaks tends to ruin your credibility. In fact, molding simple jokes into arguments is a form of devious arguing, not unakin to a Strawman. In this case I'll make an assumption that you are just jumpy about being swarmed with Ad Hominems.

These last few posts you've made have been either direct or indirect assaults on those who posted. If you want a calm and sensible debate, you need to be more friendly. How do you expect to learn if you turn down conversation with opposing viewpoints from the start?
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 18th December 2005, 01:11 AM
MewtwoX's Avatar
Veteran

26 Gender: Male Faith: Atheist Party: CA-Liberals Country: Canada Member For 5 Years Watchman
 
Join Date: 11th December 2005
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 1,358
Blessings: 1,057,183
My Mood Happy
Reps: 56,320,602,912,654 (power: 56,320,602,921)
MewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond repute
MewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond reputeMewtwoX has a reputation beyond repute
Originally Posted by Key
This is a lovely, I believe this Wishful thinking,. maybe a touch of Poisinig the Well, it might even been "Guilt by Assoication.
Here you go again, trying to throw as many fallacies as you can against the other poster wihout any true knowledge of how to weild them. All of these fallacies are fallacies only if they are used as arguments towards some end. Is this person really claiming that Evolution is true because most Biologists accept it and Creationists are untrustworthy?

I leave it to you to decide.

Originally Posted by Key
The Idea here is, you have alerady denounced any one, regardless of credentials, history, skill, or study, who disgarees with you, to be "Dishonist"

Are you wrong?

Yes, You are.

This is little more then a imposed view you posses with no validy to back it up.
Once again, jumping the gun and assuming things about those who you debate with. You reference small remarks and try to extrapolate far-reaching conclusions with them. You know if I followed your style, I would have already concluded that you have no intention to discuss Evolution and just to try and make people angry? I would have concluded that you were simply a troll. Thankfully, I realize that people argue in different ways and their expressions and feelings come out of their arguments. As I said before, you're jumping to conclusions based on the heated argument you had with your friend that this board will "Put you in your place". When you entered here, you were already expecting an ambush (heck, you even said so in the OP).
Reply With Quote
Reply


Return to Creation & Evolution

Thread Tools
Display Modes


 
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:17 PM.