Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
This, and the type of environment in which Microraptor gui lived has led paleontologists to conclude that it was arboreal, and used its wings to glide from tree to tree in the same manner as a flying squirrel.
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OK, so there was some adaptation, I can see that. Any other point here? It seems your beef is with the creation site.
__________________ Pr 21:30 -There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD.
OK, so there was some adaptation, I can see that. Any other point here? It seems your beef is with the creation site.
That’s why I posted it originally, but this also has refutations of most of what you were saying in the “Origin of birds” thread.
Fossils have been found of animals at pretty much every stage in the evolution of birds from dinosaurs. I haven’t even mentioned all of them here; this thread only describes the five that I consider most representative of the major stages in the development of flight. Why do you think these fossils exist? Did God put them here just to deceive us?
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That’s why I posted it originally, but this also has refutations of most of what you were saying in the “Origin of birds” thread.
Fossils have been found of animals at pretty much every stage in the evolution of birds from dinosaurs.
Just out of curiosity, how can we be certain it was not the other way round? Birds to mammals? Or, how can we not be sure that there were simply a greater variety of life at the time, like some of these creatures? Or, how can we say that some creatures did adapt as needed to survive in a fast changing world? The leap of faith declaring all birds to have come from dinos, is, frankly, I consider insane!
..Why do you think these fossils exist? Did God put them here just to deceive us?
As I said, either simply a fuller spectum of creatures then, or also some adapting of existing creatures, nothing more. The deception only exists in the minds of those who consider God dead or a liar, or incompetant, and who presume evolution in the form of Granny created all life.
__________________ Pr 21:30 -There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD.
Just out of curiosity, how can we be certain it was not the other way round? Birds to mammals? Or, how can we not be sure that there were simply a greater variety of life at the time, like some of these creatures
The Flaw in that idea is that is assumes that All creatures that ever existed had, at one time, all existed at the the same time.
If you conceed that all discovered life had at one time existed yet you refuse to conceed that some life is a result of another then the only logically conclusion one can draw is that all life that Exists, Has Existed, and Will Exist was created all at the same time and thus populated the Earth together.
Of course, we all know that that is not true. We have Fossil Records showing that at certain periods of history, Some forms of Life existed and Some Forms did not. All through the Fossil Record, we find evidence of Life having Existed and the approximate time of their Disappearance along with evidence of Other, New Forms of Life appearing and subquinaly disappearing.
There is less then a 0.0000000000000000000000000000017% that all Forms of life could have life all at the same time and Not leave any Evidence of their Presence for Millions of Years.
If God had Created all Life all at the Same time, then the Garden of Eden would have been one Crowded Place! Hell, The Entire Earth would have been Crowded!
I'm more inclinded to believe God created life in Stages. How he did this is up for debate but given the evidence, If's very likely he took a Few Dinos and Changed them. Of course, in the Grand Sceme of things, God took his time doing it and, to any Linear Observer, it would have appeared that a Species was "Evolving" Over time and a Few Generations.
Of course, that's Simplified and Patrionizing why of putting it. I, for one, Believe in Evolution, If not for the fact I disagree with many of the Current Accepted Theories regarding it.
If this is true, then I wouldn't say that God is "Lying" to us because honestly, I don't believe that God actually thought that there'd be this much Debate over the issue. To me, God is saying right now "Look Around. See what I have done. See how I did it! I'm showing you My Work and how I arived at the Current State of my Work. Stop Arguing with each other about How I did it and just Look for yourselves!"
...All through the Fossil Record, we find evidence of Life having Existed and the approximate time of their Disappearance along with evidence of Other, New Forms of Life appearing and subquinaly disappearing.
As we from Eden moved in on the creatures on the planet at large, they became extinct in many cases. Also the changing conditions.
There is less then a 0.0000000000000000000000000000017% that all Forms of life could have life all at the same time and Not leave any Evidence of their Presence for Millions of Years.
No, you are wrong. I don't say we existed in the same place, just the same time. AS we moved into the same place, we, the creatures of Eden, usually won out, and they became extinct.
If God had Created all Life all at the Same time, then the Garden of Eden would have been one Crowded Place! Hell, The Entire Earth would have been Crowded!
Not if He made a pair of each kind in the garden. Sort of like the ark. Then, from there, they hyper evoluted or adapted to the many species we have today.
Of course, that's Simplified and Patrionizing why of putting it. I, for one, Believe in Evolution, If not for the fact I disagree with many of the Current Accepted Theories regarding it.
So do I, all the evolution that happened in the last 6000 years when God created all kinds of creatures.
If this is true, then I wouldn't say that God is "Lying" to us because honestly, I don't believe that God actually thought that there'd be this much Debate over the issue. To me, God is saying right now "Look Around. See what I have done. See how I did it! I'm showing you My Work and how I arived at the Current State of my Work. Stop Arguing with each other about How I did it and just Look for yourselves!"
To me, He's saying " In the last days men have become so far gone they lost touch with reality. They chose to not retain Me in their knowledge, so have nothing lest but strong delusions. They worship the creation more than the Creator. Just believe Me, and the bible and you'll be alright, they got it all wrong."
__________________ Pr 21:30 -There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD.
As we from Eden moved in on the creatures on the planet at large, they became extinct in many cases. Also the changing conditions.
No, you are wrong. I don't say we existed in the same place, just the same time. AS we moved into the same place, we, the creatures of Eden, usually won out, and they became extinct.
Not if He made a pair of each kind in the garden. Sort of like the ark. Then, from there, they hyper evoluted or adapted to the many species we have today.
Assuming for a Moment that “The Garden of Eden” was, in fact, a Metaphor for the Earth itself (as God Intended it as), It’s conceivable that the Earth could have supported 2 of every Species that ever existed. But I’ve never been one to subscribe to the Ark Theory anyway. It’s not Genetically Sound to Populated an entire Species of just 2 Subjects.
Either way, that’s still a Hundred-Billion (Known and Projected) Species populating Earth. Given the Time and Rate of Reproduction to reach a Substantial Population of Hundred-Thousand of every Successful Species (accounting for the Projected Rate of a Thousand species becoming Extinct every thousand years), That would still be an Inconceivable amount of Life-forms inhabiting Earth at any given time.
Also, That still doesn’t Explain why Not all Species Living today has been found in the Fossil Record Throughout History. Why hasn’t a Tiger been found in the Same Record as a Sabertooth? Why hasn’t a Common House Cat been found right alongside a Stegosaurus? It’s the Lack of Evidence that often Speaks louder then the Evidence that we have found.
So do I, all the evolution that happened in the last 6000 years when God created all kinds of creatures.
What makes you so sure that All Life was created just 6000 years ago?
If Genesis was a Literal account of the Creation of Life, which would mean that those Billions of Creatures that I refer to up there all Lived within that time. Which brings me to a question. How on Earth did they all Die off and Get Buried in Rock and Stone in just that Short of a Time?
Now, If Genesis was a yet another Metaphor then, it’s far more Likely that the Earth and all Life on it was created in the Last 65 Million Years or more, with each “1 day” in Genesis referring to 10 Million Years of real History, not just 6000.
To me, He's saying " In the last days men have become so far gone they lost touch with reality. They chose to not retain Me in their knowledge, so have nothing lest but strong delusions. They worship the creation more than the Creator. Just believe Me, and the bible and you'll be alright, they got it all wrong."
Which, to me, Speaks to the one major Flaw in Believing in a God. Not everyone will Interpret his Meaning the Same way, Every time. It doesn’t necessarily mean that God doesn’t Exist nor does it mean that one person is Wrong for disagreeing with the other Person. It just means that we all have a long way to go before we can Learn the Truth for ourselves.
Questioning God and his Existence is not Wrong nor is it a Sin. Believing something you’re Told just because you’re too afraid to Find out the Truth for yourself is wrong, If maybe not a Sin Itself.
Excellent summary, Aggie. Thanks for taking the time. I had never heard of biblelife.org before. Wow, it seems to be written by and for 4th graders. It's scary that some unsuspecting soul might read this and think it contained real information. Skimming through a few sections, I learned that X human chromosomes produce males and Y human chromosomes produce females. Also, I learned that "One of the actions of the first Congress was to approve the publication by the Government of 20,000 Bibles for distribution to the schools, in 1782. Too bad the constitution wasn't ratified until 1787, and not in effect until 1789. Oh, and fiber in your diet is really a bad thing. That last one (and other health claims on the website) could really cause harm to people.
They say the devil is in the details. This website gives a whole new meaning to that saying. I always thought deception and lying were rather un-Christian behavior?
Assuming for a Moment that “The Garden of Eden” was, in fact, a Metaphor for the Earth itself (as God Intended it as), It’s conceivable that the Earth could have supported 2 of every Species that ever existed. But I’ve never been one to subscribe to the Ark Theory anyway. It’s not Genetically Sound to Populated an entire Species of just 2 Subjects.
The past if spititual as well as physical changes that. The genes were fine. Hec we lived just under 1000 years.
Either way, that’s still a Hundred-Billion (Known and Projected) Species populating Earth. Given the Time and Rate of Reproduction to reach a Substantial Population of Hundred-Thousand of every Successful Species (accounting for the Projected Rate of a Thousand species becoming Extinct every thousand years), That would still be an Inconceivable amount of Life-forms inhabiting Earth at any given time.
No, not at all. If there was hyper evolution in that different past. One kind can make oodles of species. This neuters your logic.
Also, That still doesn’t Explain why Not all Species Living today has been found in the Fossil Record Throughout History. Why hasn’t a Tiger been found in the Same Record as a Sabertooth? Why hasn’t a Common House Cat been found right alongside a Stegosaurus?
Because the tigers all evolved from the one pair on the ark.
It’s the Lack of Evidence that often Speaks louder then the Evidence that we have found.
True, which is why you can't prove the past was physical only, as is the present. That yells to me.
What makes you so sure that All Life was created just 6000 years ago?
I am just taking God's word for it, and no science says otherwise, so why not?
If Genesis was a Literal account of the Creation of Life, which would mean that those Billions of Creatures that I refer to up there all Lived within that time. Which brings me to a question. How on Earth did they all Die off and Get Buried in Rock and Stone in just that Short of a Time?
There was a great dying. The permian termination.
Now, If Genesis was a yet another Metaphor then, it’s far more Likely that the Earth and all Life on it was created in the Last 65 Million Years or more, with each “1 day” in Genesis referring to 10 Million Years of real History, not just 6000.
But since it's true, I need not go there.
Which, to me, Speaks to the one major Flaw in Believing in a God. Not everyone will Interpret his Meaning the Same way, Every time. It doesn’t necessarily mean that God doesn’t Exist nor does it mean that one person is Wrong for disagreeing with the other Person. It just means that we all have a long way to go before we can Learn the Truth for ourselves.
Only if we don't get His help. If we do, it's just a read away, and a prayer away.
Questioning God and his Existence is not Wrong nor is it a Sin. Believing something you’re Told just because you’re too afraid to Find out the Truth for yourself is wrong, If maybe not a Sin Itself.
Well, kids, my advice is question what you are taught if it goes against the bible, then!
__________________ Pr 21:30 -There is no wisdom nor understanding nor counsel against the LORD.
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