Pastors that abuse their authority.

New_Wineskin · #41 25th December 2005, 07:25 AM

Originally Posted by Qidron

I'd like to know what you mean too. As a Catholic, we always looked at the priest as our advocate to God...and we were required to confess to him as well. So he had a very prominent possition in our lives. When I went to a protestant church I revered the pastors the same way...that got ppl into trouble who chose to confess to them...whoa! Don't want to do that! Anyway since then we have recognized that pastors are just men ...brothers in Christ like the rest of us....we began to wonder why did we still sense a superior air? My understanding is that we are all of the same body with Christ as the head...not a many headed body. So somehow the true relationship for pastors has to be made known to us. I still don't get it. But He will reveal it to me.

Blessings to you

You are certainly getting there . What would help is to get rid of the title . Placing a title on a person or needing a person with a title seperates the person from the rest of us . The Lord made a pretty good speech about not calling people this or that . I think that He gave 4 different titles . It is interesting that non-orthodox get on the case of the orthodox about the use of the word "father" as a title because that is specifically mentioned in that speech . Yet , they have no problem having titles of their own . Having an elevated area in frot of all of the chairs with all of the chairs facing it doesn't help , either .

Chopinzee · #42 25th December 2005, 02:03 PM

Originally Posted by Bevlina

This type of abuse is very scary and unfortunately enough, there is too much of it going on today. I know one pastor who found out a lady and gentleman were living together, and not married. In front of the whole congregation, he ordered them both to leave the church and gave the reason why.

These kinds of things are also spiritual abuse.
What has been mentioned on the OP is nothing short of disgraceful. People are not fools, yet these types of "pastors" prey on them.
Why do they do it? Nobody really knows. Many just want money from people. The get rich quick through Jesus scam that's sweeping the world. And people fall for it!! It really makes me think of those words "there's one born every second".
They are cults. Pure and simple.
Churches pay no taxes, that's how these predators operate. To me they are just not men of God. They are simply predators.

Yeah, I've been to a pentacostal church too. I didn't like it either.

Qidron · #43 25th December 2005, 03:46 PM

Originally Posted by New_Wineskin

You are certainly getting there . What would help is to get rid of the title . Placing a title on a person or needing a person with a title seperates the person from the rest of us . The Lord made a pretty good speech about not calling people this or that . I think that He gave 4 different titles . It is interesting that non-orthodox get on the case of the orthodox about the use of the word "father" as a title because that is specifically mentioned in that speech . Yet , they have no problem having titles of their own . Having an elevated area in frot of all of the chairs with all of the chairs facing it doesn't help , either .

OK, let's go from this:

Eph 4:11 And truly He gave some to be apostles, and some to be prophets, and some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers,

Eph 4:12 for the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ.

Here we have a list of the practical edification-of-the-body gifts that have been given via the Holy Spirit. We need to throw down everything we have previously been taught and understand what the original intent was of these giftings. I know that I NEED the Lord to clarify this.

Perhaps a new thread is needed. But do share what the Lord has or is showing you. And thanks.

1saved1 · #44 26th December 2005, 06:25 PM

Oops!!! Obviously a Newbie!!! (LOL)

I offer only one piece of advice. LOOK TO THE WORD, NOT TO THE MAN!!!

Blessings

Qidron · #45 26th December 2005, 07:43 PM

Originally Posted by 1saved1

Oops!!! Obviously a Newbie!!! (LOL)

I offer only one piece of advice. LOOK TO THE WORD, NOT TO THE MAN!!!

Blessings

Oh AMEN to that. And that's exactly what I am asking here...what DOES the Word say..the way we see these "offices" has been shmeared over the centuries.

Blessings to you

ffinder · #46 27th December 2005, 02:39 PM

Originally Posted by 1saved1

Oops!!! Obviously a Newbie!!! (LOL)

I offer only one piece of advice. LOOK TO THE WORD, NOT TO THE MAN!!!

Blessings

Well in looking at the Word I see that the Word commands me to do the following:

1Co 5:11 But now I write to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of [Christian] brother if he is known to be guilty of immorality or greed, or is an idolater [whose soul is devoted to any object that usurps the place of God], or is a person with a foul tongue [railing, abusing, reviling, slandering], or is a drunkard or a swindler or a robber. [No] you must not so much as eat with such a person.
1Co 5:12 What [business] of mine is it and what right have I to judge outsiders? Is it not those inside [the church] upon whom you are to pass disciplinary judgment [passing censuring sentence on them as the facts require]?
1Co 5:13 God alone sits in judgment on those who are outside. Drive out that wicked one from among you [expel him from your church].

The problem with abusive pastors is that you cannot expel them from their church (most of the time) because they have almost total control of everything including the minds of their church members so the only option is to go away.

The main reasons pastors become abusers i thing is:

1-the old pyramid structure which can encourage someone to become abusive. If only every church has many pastors that are on equal standing with each other and the rest of the believers - servants that care for others.
2-pastor the main preacher/teacher. When all eyes are always upon him believers will begin to exalt hin especially after some really good messages. Then pride will come cripping in and he will require more and more from the flock
3-success. If people are getting saved and his ministry grows he will require believers to serve him eventually

OK there are more reasons than the above.

What can be done to cure a church's pastor abusive behavior. Well nothing really. Maybe prayer. Especially if he reaches the point that he things he is the only one hearing God and if God "sometimes" speaks to others it must be in line with what he hears. You may confront him with the Word of God and prove him wrong he will just say 'well i'm right and you are wrong!' (i did this with a pastor) At that certain point he hears litterally noone no matter if they prove him wrong from the Word.

It is far easier to start something new without that old pyramid structure than getting the pyramid structure out of a pyramid structured church. Can you go to a pastor and convince him to cancel the pyramid structure out of his church? it is virtually impossible. First of all he will lose his full time job! then he will have to submit to the flock "1Pe 5:5 all of you be subject one to another"

I believe in a cross like structure were all believers, pastors, prophets are serving one another and each one has a deep relationship with God. Who leads? Jesus thru them all. "Act 4:32 And the multitude of those who believed were of one heart and one soul. "

FF

Qidron · #47 27th December 2005, 03:29 PM

Well, I have no desire to change anyones structure... stiff necks don't turn.
The Lord brought me...my husband...our kids...where we are today...home. He has not given us any indication to enter into another congregation...none that we are now aware of anyhow. Except for the IHOP...and we do have a connection there.

So it is apparent that we are in a time of learning or relearning what the word is saying about how to congregate the way He wants.

The two scriptures you shared are very simple and helpful....thanks.

9-iron · #48 27th December 2005, 04:35 PM

I found this detector the other day..

Now that was pretty darn funny!!

jlerollin · #49 28th December 2005, 05:57 AM

Originally Posted by Johnnz

You need to work through hurts etc before you consider any ministry.

Most importantly I suggest you forget the word 'ministry'. Just look to be just another person amongst a group of others who seek to implement what Pual wrote: Eph 4:16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work. NIV

When people forget institutional terms such a leader, ministry, authority, submission and just get on with being Christlike then something really healthy and organic can develop.

John
NZ

i feel somewhat like jonah and the other prophets who found that actually not getting on with the job of communicating gods message actually landed them or would land them in deep water. I have a lot to share and i must be about the lords business, though i have been recently swallowed by a whale the mandate still holds.

seconldy finding such a group that can develop means finding a group of non-church going christians.... but at the moment anybody who associates me is frayed away by my persecutors as they know if a group began to associate like that that it would threaten their role as local pastors and church leaders especially the false ones as they have no spiritual power to hold those they do and if a harmonious organisation with true spiritual power emerged rather than the sham spirituyal hype their deception would be all the more difficult to hold onto.

i certainly envy position right now but God will prevail.

Qidron · #50 28th December 2005, 02:31 PM

YESSSS God will prevail. He is stronger than our persecutors...and we rejoice that we are being persecuted for righteousness sake. Jonah needed to be in the whale because he ran in the oposite direction than God had sent him. Have you done that? If not...stop believing your persecutors. And if you have...repent. In any case...Take this time and listen to all He is saying to you. CHRIST WILL pull us together...and THAT WILL PREVAIL.