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15th December 2005, 05:12 PM
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Reps: 604,418,086,506,083,840 (power: 604,418,086,506,099) | | Originally Posted by Johnnz The issue of pastoral abuse will remain as long as churches retain the pyramid structure with a professional (or self appointed) person at the top. When that person becomes the final authority, when there is one person's teaching dominating others, when there is a fulltime professional then the rest of us, we cannot avoid issues of the misuse of authority. That is built into the system. Even in the case of a godly minister or pastor his position automatically places him/her above others, and that is not a NT pattern.
Here is another model. The pastoral gift is exercised along with the many others Christ gives to his church. No one person dominates the congregation. All leaders are employed during the week and are self supporting. The current functions performed by the 'professional' are now undertaken by suitably gifted people. The Body of Christ is now beginning to function as a unit.
That's the model we have adopted. It's great.
John
NZ
Great post . I would only add that one could allow the giftings to flow without needing a name . That would include any pastoral gifts . Why is there a need to identify a pastor ? Why is there a need to point to someone and tell them that they are operating in a pastoral gift ? Why not allow things to smply flow as the Spirit leads ?   |
15th December 2005, 06:28 PM
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Reps: 189,235,233,372,846,048 (power: 189,235,233,372,863) | | | I totally agree, although a name (but definately not a title) can give some focus and direction to people. For example, knowing that your gifting is teaching can stop you meddling in other areas!
John
NZ
Last edited by Johnnz; 16th December 2005 at 03:06 PM.
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16th December 2005, 02:17 PM
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Reps: 3,073,366 (power: 3,090) | | | I think every pastor should be required to read And the Shofar Blew.
It covers a pastor who starts on the right path following Christ and somewhere along the way loses that path. It also shows the path to a more glorifying church. It was actually a painful book to read as I could see these habits in many of the pastors from past churches I had attended. It also confirmed the choice of my current church. |
16th December 2005, 03:16 PM
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Reps: 189,235,233,372,846,048 (power: 189,235,233,372,863) | | Originally Posted by Qidron
And what I mean is....there is a way to proceed. We have been so long in the traditions of men that we don't really know...even when we read the Word...how we are really supposed to proceed. Our minds got dull. Some of us have broken out and now we need to know....What should a pastor, according to the Word, be doing? How does that gift look in action..how is it different from what we have known?
I was just looking at Song of Songs 1:7....and she is asking "where do you feed your flock and where do they lie down to rest...?" I am asking too.
I think the first thing we need to look at is the notion that there is to be one person with a professional function who is "the pastor".
For a biblical model for church leadership and congegational responsibility for each other look at Ezekiel 34, and recognise that Christ perfectly fulfilled the Good Shepherd role.
It seems all but impossible for the institutionalised church to make the necessary changes, which results in much anguish for many comitted Christians.
John
NZ |
19th December 2005, 07:59 AM
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Reps: 64 (power: 0) | | | hello i would be interested to hear about your experiment.
I have recently come out of a church that has been abusive. they have turned my family and friends against me as well as the local authorities and i am being mentally d day and night by the local community though I have left years ago.
I think they prey on those who are gifted and a threat to their power base and monetary base. I do think it is possible for a leader to create healthy organisations but i do think the current set up is both unscriptural and practically inhibiting to the expansion and discipleship of a revival, they are kings in all but name.
I have been interested in ministry for some time but am looking for a that will work somewhat better than the current one though rick warrens purpose driven church and some house planting movement articles seem to exhibit the freedom nescessary for a growing and healthy congregation |
22nd December 2005, 01:30 PM
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Reps: 11,665,687,808,468,260 (power: 0) | | | the priest in the traditional churches is diffrent from the pastor in the protestant churches
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We are Copts Not Arab , Christians live in our homeland forever |
22nd December 2005, 01:31 PM
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Reps: 2,724 (power: 10) | | Originally Posted by copticorthodoxy the priest in the traditional churches is diffrent from the pastor in the protestant churches
In what way?
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Matthew 7:1 Do not judge, or you too will be judged. For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the same measure you use, it will be measured to you.
Matthew 6:27 Who of you by worrying can add a single hour to his life.
Matthew 12:25 Jesus knew their thoughts and said to them, "Every Kindgom disvided against itself will be ruined, and every city or household divided against itself will not stand. |
22nd December 2005, 03:18 PM
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Reps: 29,294 (power: 40) | | | I'd like to know what you mean too. As a Catholic, we always looked at the priest as our advocate to God...and we were required to confess to him as well. So he had a very prominent possition in our lives. When I went to a protestant church I revered the pastors the same way...that got ppl into trouble who chose to confess to them...whoa! Don't want to do that! Anyway since then we have recognized that pastors are just men ...brothers in Christ like the rest of us....we began to wonder why did we still sense a superior air? My understanding is that we are all of the same body with Christ as the head...not a many headed body. So somehow the true relationship for pastors has to be made known to us. I still don't get it. But He will reveal it to me.
Blessings to you
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23rd December 2005, 09:36 AM
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25th December 2005, 03:57 AM
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Reps: 189,235,233,372,846,048 (power: 189,235,233,372,863) | | Originally Posted by jlerollin hello i would be interested to hear about your experiment.
I have recently come out of a church that has been abusive. they have turned my family and friends against me as well as the local authorities and i am being mentally d day and night by the local community though I have left years ago.
I think they prey on those who are gifted and a threat to their power base and monetary base. I do think it is possible for a leader to create healthy organisations but i do think the current set up is both unscriptural and practically inhibiting to the expansion and discipleship of a revival, they are kings in all but name.
I have been interested in ministry for some time but am looking for a that will work somewhat better than the current one though rick warrens purpose driven church and some house planting movement articles seem to exhibit the freedom nescessary for a growing and healthy congregation
You need to work through hurts etc before you consider any ministry.
Most importantly I suggest you forget the word 'ministry'. Just look to be just another person amongst a group of others who seek to implement what Pual wrote: Eph 4:16 From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work. NIV
When people forget institutional terms such a leader, ministry, authority, submission and just get on with being Christlike then something really healthy and organic can develop.
John
NZ | | |
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