Home | Be a Christian | Devotionals | Join Us! | Forums | Rules | F.A.Q.


Go Back   Christian Forums > Congregation > Faith Groups > Word of Faith
Register BlogsPrayersJobsArcade Calendar Mark Forums Read

Word of Faith This is a forum for Word of Faith movement members.

Closed Thread
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
  #71  
Old 26th September 2003, 12:02 AM
Legend

Gender: Male Married Faith: Word-of-Faith Country: United States Member For 5 Years Commander
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 2nd September 2002
Posts: 17,873
Blessings: 1,565
My Mood Lonely
Reps: 84,817,804,877,348,560 (power: 84,817,804,877,376)
didaskalos has disabled reputation
Originally Posted by I'm awake
I wasn't calling anyone an apostate I was tring to make a point that I wasn't on Hanegraf's side I don't know the man,( he could be a screw ball or a Man of God, I don't know and I don't care either way) and I wasn't picking one guy against the other. I was sharing my thoughts that this wasn't about Hanegraf. Sorry if you feel different.
Let's be careful not to get the thread shut down... it is the mod's call, and it is against forum rules to take issue with the decision in public. PM her if you do not like it. Please do not get the thread shut down!!!
__________________
HELLO SAINTS!
See my best ranting and raving here:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

See part two of my blog here:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


"...do not be concerned that some do not see your message. There are those who are hungrey for truth and who are seeking light. If there is truth in what you are saying, it will ring in their hearts like a bell. Those who are seeking will find, and if what they are seeking is in your saying, they will know it."
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Dids
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!

  #72  
Old 29th September 2003, 09:50 PM
JEREMY O'ROURKE's Avatar
Regular Member

35 Gender: Male Country: United States Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 17th July 2003
Location: SAN ANTONIO TEXAS
Posts: 288
Blessings: 108,605
Reps: 18 (power: 0)
JEREMY O'ROURKE is on a distinguished road
I am kind of curious as to why Hank Hannographs opinions mean so much. This guy is one of the most anti Pentecostal that there is. I think that people should really look and search through his bazar theology. I sure dont agree with most of what he says. He is really far off in what he believes. He seems to think it is ok to believe that the gifts of the Holy Spirit are not for today. Another wierd doctrine he has is that you have to believe in the trinity to be a Christian. He says that Oneness Pentecostals are a cult. He just is not very sound take what you hear from him with a grain of salt would be my advice to anyone who listens to him. This man will and has lead many astray from truth. None of the apostles were trinitarian. They were all oneness. It just saddens me that so many people get caught up into thinking he is a person with discernment. I will pray daily that God opens his eyes. If it was not but by the grace of God I could be the same way.
  #73  
Old 30th September 2003, 02:46 AM
I'm awake's Avatar
Junior Member

43 Gender: Male Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 9th July 2002
Posts: 16
Blessings: 108,505
Reps: 10 (power: 0)
I'm awake is on a distinguished road
You don't believe in the trinity?????

1 John 5
7 For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one.
(KJV)

" None of the apostles were trinitarian"

Then who was Jesus talking to in Matthew 28 after his resurrection.

Matthew 28
18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.
19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: {teach...: or, make disciples, or, Christians of all nations}
20 Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you alway, even unto the end of the world. Amen.
(KJV)

Once again I am NOT taking side with any so called preacher just the WORD OF GOD.
__________________
Luke 6
46 And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
(KJV)
  #74  
Old 30th September 2003, 05:44 AM
Senior Veteran

Gender: Male Faith: Non-Denominational Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 25th February 2002
Posts: 4,955
Blessings: 309,537
Reps: 237 (power: 0)
Andrew has disabled reputation
The Golden Rule is never to condemn any man or his ministry, worse make fun. Any minister worth his salt knows this. You do not run a man or his ministry down. And even when you yourself are criticised abt your sermons and ministry by others, you simply do not respond and continue to walk in love. Let God handle his own servants.

The late Kenneth E Hagin purposed in his heart many decades ago to walk in love. Hence he never answered his critics, not matter how sarcastic or slanderous they were. He let God be his defence, and went about doing faithfully what he believed God had called him to do.

I believe the Copelands are the same too.

So, those who are for WOF should just do likewise and ignore all these critics. If someone genuinely wants to know more, then do so in the charismatic forum where there is more fair control or do it via PM or e-mail.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
  #75  
Old 30th September 2003, 09:58 AM
Blackhawk's Avatar
Monkey Boy

41 Gender: Male Married Faith: Eastern-Orthodox Party: US-Republican Country: United States Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 5th February 2002
Location: Ft. Worth, tx
Posts: 4,903
Blessings: 66,319
Reps: 1,057 (power: 17)
Blackhawk is a glorious beacon of lightBlackhawk is a glorious beacon of lightBlackhawk is a glorious beacon of lightBlackhawk is a glorious beacon of lightBlackhawk is a glorious beacon of lightBlackhawk is a glorious beacon of lightBlackhawk is a glorious beacon of lightBlackhawk is a glorious beacon of light
Originally Posted by Andrew
The Golden Rule is never to condemn any man or his ministry, worse make fun. Any minister worth his salt knows this. You do not run a man or his ministry down. And even when you yourself are criticised abt your sermons and ministry by others, you simply do not respond and continue to walk in love. Let God handle his own servants.
I disagree. Sure one should be humble about such matters but Paul spoke to others about theological problems in others ministries and Christ did so also. Paul said that the judiazers preached another gospel and Jesus rejected and criticized what the pharisees were doing. Christ even said that the pharisees father was satan. We are told in many places in the bible to contradict theological errors in love. It is not loving to just ignore them. it is not loving to the ones under their ministry nor to the ministers themselves. The golden rule states that we should love our neighbor as we love ourselves. To just ignore major theological problems is to not love your neighbor.

Originally Posted by Andrew
The late Kenneth E Hagin purposed in his heart many decades ago to walk in love. Hence he never answered his critics, not matter how sarcastic or slanderous they were. He let God be his defence, and went about doing faithfully what he believed God had called him to do.
Maybe he had no answers to them. Not all of them came in an improper way. Why did he not answer any of them?

QUOTE=Andrew]I believe the Copelands are the same too.

So, those who are for WOF should just do likewise and ignore all these critics. If someone genuinely wants to know more, then do so in the charismatic forum where there is more fair control or do it via PM or e-mail. [/quote]
shouldn't one listen to the concerns of the critics instead of just ignoring them? The wise listen to correction. The stupid do not. That is what the Bible says.


Prov 12:1
1 Whoever loves discipline loves knowledge, but he who hates reproof is stupid.
(NAU)
Prov 10:14
14 Wise men store up knowledge, but with the mouth of the foolish, ruin is at hand.
(NAU)
Prov 20:15
15 There is gold, and an abundance of jewels; but the lips of knowledge are a more precious thing.
(NAU)
Prov 19:27
27 Cease listening, my son, to discipline, {and you will} stray from the words of knowledge.
(NAU)
Prov 23:12
12 Apply your heart to discipline and your ears to words of knowledge.
(NAU)
__________________
Through the power of the Holy Spirit I am resolved to fully know Christ and to serve Him as Lord and Master of my life until I am with my Father in heaven which will be my gain.

To live is Christ and to die is gain. Phil. 2:10


That I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Phil 3:10-11
  #76  
Old 30th September 2003, 11:11 AM
Senior Veteran

Gender: Male Faith: Non-Denominational Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 25th February 2002
Posts: 4,955
Blessings: 309,537
Reps: 237 (power: 0)
Andrew has disabled reputation
I disagree. Sure one should be humble about such matters but Paul spoke to others about theological problems in others ministries and Christ did so also. Paul said that the judiazers preached another gospel and Jesus rejected and criticized what the pharisees were doing. Christ even said that the pharisees father was satan. We are told in many places in the bible to contradict theological errors in love. It is not loving to just ignore them. it is not loving to the ones under their ministry nor to the ministers themselves. The golden rule states that we should love our neighbor as we love ourselves. To just ignore major theological problems is to not love your neighbor.
I'm talking about servants of God here, not Christians vs non-believers, as in Paul (a believer) vs Pharisees (non-believers).

The golden rule I'm refering to is this unwritten understanding ministers of God who walk in love have.

They know better than to tear down another minister's ministry and ruin his reputation. They do not answer their critics (other ministers) and neither do they criticise other ministers in front of their own congregation.

They may correct or preach against a particular teaching or doctrine, but they leave out names.

I respect such ministers, whether I agree with them or not. But self-appointed "heresy hunters" are really out of the will of God and really a dying breed.

Maybe he had no answers to them. Not all of them came in an improper way. Why did he not answer any of them?
I'm sure they'd answer those who genuinely seek to know more or clarify issues. But he does not bother to answer those who were just out to run him down and humiliate him on national radio, in books, TV etc. If you think about it, its really pointless becos these people are not interested in learning but just criticising and proving all others wrong and himself right only. Proverbs tells us not to waste our time with such people. Besides all the books and explanations and sermons are out there. But if someone is bent on attacking someone, it just goes on.

shouldn't one listen to the concerns of the critics instead of just ignoring them? The wise listen to correction. The stupid do not. That is what the Bible says.
I think the key word here is critic. IOW the person just wants to criticise. He's hardly what proverbs calls a man who heeds correction and yearns for Godly knowledge. The critic is the fool that simply will not listen.

I've read a lot of anti-WOF sites and one need only read a few paras to sense the unhealthy spirit of criticism and sarcasm they contain. Ministers names pop up, are judged, misrepresented, condemned called all sorts of slanderous things -- best of all the people who write such contents are supposed to be Christians.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
  #77  
Old 2nd October 2003, 02:43 PM
Blackhawk's Avatar
Monkey Boy

41 Gender: Male Married Faith: Eastern-Orthodox Party: US-Republican Country: United States Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 5th February 2002
Location: Ft. Worth, tx
Posts: 4,903
Blessings: 66,319
Reps: 1,057 (power: 17)
Blackhawk is a glorious beacon of lightBlackhawk is a glorious beacon of lightBlackhawk is a glorious beacon of lightBlackhawk is a glorious beacon of lightBlackhawk is a glorious beacon of lightBlackhawk is a glorious beacon of lightBlackhawk is a glorious beacon of lightBlackhawk is a glorious beacon of light
Originally Posted by Andrew
I'm talking about servants of God here, not Christians vs non-believers, as in Paul (a believer) vs Pharisees (non-believers).
Well there were no Christians in the strict sense at that time. The pharisees come from the jewish tradition that Christianity in many ways came from. So I do not think how Christ dealt with them is so easily dismissed because they were not Christians.

Originally Posted by Andrew
The golden rule I'm refering to is this unwritten understanding ministers of God who walk in love have.
Huh?

Originally Posted by Andrew
They know better than to tear down another minister's ministry and ruin his reputation. They do not answer their critics (other ministers) and neither do they criticise other ministers in front of their own congregation.

They may correct or preach against a particular teaching or doctrine, but they leave out names.

I respect such ministers, whether I agree with them or not. But self-appointed "heresy hunters" are really out of the will of God and really a dying breed.
But is that Biblical? Paul prached against the judiazers to their own congreagation. Paul pointed out problems in congregations using names. I do not see any biblical foudnation for what you have just said as long as the ones who do rebuke do so out of love for all. Many times the most loving thing to do is to pubicly rebuke someone. Matthew 18 makes that clear. In matthew 18 one can not only be rebuked pubicly but excommunicated from fellowship pubicly. Scriptures show that we should preach and teach the truth in love. Not be silent and let others fall because of false teachings. That is very unloving.


Originally Posted by Andrew
I'm sure they'd answer those who genuinely seek to know more or clarify issues. But he does not bother to answer those who were just out to run him down and humiliate him on national radio, in books, TV etc. If you think about it, its really pointless becos these people are not interested in learning but just criticising and proving all others wrong and himself right only. Proverbs tells us not to waste our time with such people. Besides all the books and explanations and sermons are out there. But if someone is bent on attacking someone, it just goes on.
I kind of agree with this. If al lyou are saying is that if someone is not rebuking in love then one maybe shoudl not answer them then I am okay with that. Atleast I can see that it would be a good general principle although not always the right thing to do. But I think we have vast differences in what we mean by loving rebuke though.


Originally Posted by Andrew
I think the key word here is critic. IOW the person just wants to criticise. He's hardly what proverbs calls a man who heeds correction and yearns for Godly knowledge. The critic is the fool that simply will not listen.

I've read a lot of anti-WOF sites and one need only read a few paras to sense the unhealthy spirit of criticism and sarcasm they contain. Ministers names pop up, are judged, misrepresented, condemned called all sorts of slanderous things -- best of all the people who write such contents are supposed to be Christians.
True but many are not like that. I see many stating facts truthfully. But even if they are all lies I ma sure some on here do just want to lovingly rebuke the teachings of the WOF movement. I certaintly do.
__________________
Through the power of the Holy Spirit I am resolved to fully know Christ and to serve Him as Lord and Master of my life until I am with my Father in heaven which will be my gain.

To live is Christ and to die is gain. Phil. 2:10


That I may know Him and the power of His resurrection and the fellowship of His sufferings, being conformed to His death; in order that I may attain to the resurrection from the dead. Phil 3:10-11
  #78  
Old 2nd October 2003, 09:36 PM
JEREMY O'ROURKE's Avatar
Regular Member

35 Gender: Male Country: United States Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 17th July 2003
Location: SAN ANTONIO TEXAS
Posts: 288
Blessings: 108,605
Reps: 18 (power: 0)
JEREMY O'ROURKE is on a distinguished road
The reason I dont believe in the trinity is because Jesus is God all by himself. I dont deny the father, son, and holy ghost. I believe that they are titles or offices that Jesus holds just like you can be a brother, father, and a son. Here you have three functions but you are not three people. In other words I am saying that Jesus is the father the son and the holy spirit. There is not three Gods. Christianity is monotheoistic not polytheostic. Acts 2:38 talks about being baptized in Jesus name.
  #79  
Old 3rd October 2003, 04:54 AM
Senior Veteran

Gender: Male Faith: Non-Denominational Member For 5 Years
 
Join Date: 25th February 2002
Posts: 4,955
Blessings: 309,537
Reps: 237 (power: 0)
Andrew has disabled reputation
Well there were no Christians in the strict sense at that time. The pharisees come from the jewish tradition that Christianity in many ways came from. So I do not think how Christ dealt with them is so easily dismissed because they were not Christians.
There were no Christians in Paul's time??

Many times the most loving thing to do is to pubicly rebuke someone. Matthew 18 makes that clear. In matthew 18 one can not only be rebuked pubicly but excommunicated from fellowship pubicly.
Mat 18 says if a brother (note this is also pre-cross) has trespassed you, go direct to him and settle it with him. So, how has Kenneth Hagin trepassed you? Have you even gone to see him one on one first? This has to do with personal disputes, not minister attacking minister. Anyway, if you want to use Mat 18, then I suggest you follow it properly and go see whoever offended you.

Scriptures show that we should preach and teach the truth in love. Not be silent and let others fall because of false teachings. That is very unloving.
What is false teaching to you may not be false teaching to others. What you preach here may be "false" teachings in the charismatic forum or catholic forum, and vice versa. But does that give me a right to tell everyone you are a heretic and false teacher? If you dare to label the late brother Hagin as a heretic, how is it you dont come into the charismatic forums and start calling all those there like myself, disdaskalos and quaffer false teachers? for we believe much of the WOF teachings. Why dont you warn others here about us too? Call us heretics, false teacher, sheep in wolf's clothing etc and do it in love, if you can.

Again, I say, correct the doctrine if you want to, but dont attack other fellow Christians just becos you think that your doctrines are right and others are wrong.

I will not belabour the point.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

Last edited by Andrew; 3rd October 2003 at 04:59 AM.
  #80  
Old 3rd October 2003, 12:32 PM
Ken's Avatar
Veteran

50 Gender: Male Faith: Calvinist Country: United States Member For 5 Years
View Profile Pic
 
Join Date: 14th August 2003
Location: North Central Indiana
Posts: 1,178
Blessings: 108,584
Reps: 196 (power: 0)
Ken has a spectacular aura aboutKen has a spectacular aura about
Jeffery, I believe the beliefs you are espousing is a form of a fairly ancient heresy known as Modalism....

"Modalism is probably the most common theological error concerning the nature of God. It is a denial of the Trinity which states that God is a single person who, throughout biblical history, has revealed Himself in three consecutive modes, or forms. Thus, God is a single person who first manifested himself in the mode of the Father in Old Testament times. At the incarnation, the mode was the Son. After Jesus' ascension, the mode is the Holy Spirit. These modes are consecutive and never simultaneous. In other words, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit never all exist at the same time, only one after another. Modalism denies the distinctiveness of the three persons in the Trinity even though it retains the divinity of Christ.
Present day groups that hold to this error are the United Pentecostal and United Apostolic Churches. They deny the Trinity, teach that the name of God is Jesus, and require baptism for salvation. These modalist churches often accuse Trinitarians of teaching three gods. This is not what the Trinity is. The correct teaching of the Trinity is one God in three eternal coexistent persons: The Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit."
Closed Thread


Return to Word of Faith

Thread Tools
Display Modes


 
Become a CF Site Supporter Today and Make These Ads Go Away!


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:23 PM.