PR 16:4 The LORD works out everything for his own ends--
even the wicked for a day of disaster
rom 9:18 Therefore God has mercy on whom he wants to have mercy, and he hardens whom he wants to harden.
RO 9:22 What if God, choosing to show his wrath and make his power known, bore with great patience the objects of his wrath--prepared for destruction? 23 What if he did this to make the riches of his glory known to the objects of his mercy, whom he prepared in advance for glory-- 2
Sigh, the ususual Calvinist prooftexts. When does it end?
The passages are interpretted by your presuppositions rather than the CONTEXT as well as by other Scriptures. Let us take for example, your quotation of Romans 9:18. This out of context quote almost implies that God is abritrary in how He will deal out mercy. It is true that no one can demand that God have mercy on them as the Jews who Paul was addressing were doing. Therefore, God has the right to set the conditions on mercy. Far from being arbitrary, God is willing to give mercy to those who follow His conditions:
Many sorrows shall be to the wicked: but he that trusteth in the LORD, mercy shall compass him about. (Psalm 32:10)
For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee. (Psalm 86:5)
So Romans 9:18 is not teaching that God is arbitrary in how He deals out mercy. Neither does He just arbitrarily harden people. Romans 1:24 teaches us that after some time, He gives people up and turns them over to their own lusts. This is what he did with Pharoah. Pharoah first hardened His own heart before God finally assisted in the process.
However, the best response to your Romans 9 prooftexts comes from Romans 9 itself:
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. (Rom. 9:31-33)
God extends mercy to those who will believe of their own volition. No irresistable grace involved here, no arbitrary mercy extended. God is fair and gives every man equal opportunity to accept or reject His mercy. This passage answers all of your prooftexts and your out of context understanding of them.
__________________ Let the Scriptures Determine Your Theology, Do Not Read Your Theology into Scripture.
Sigh, the ususual Calvinist prooftexts. When does it end?
The passages are interpretted by your presuppositions rather than the CONTEXT as well as by other Scriptures. Let us take for example, your quotation of Romans 9:18. This out of context quote almost implies that God is abritrary in how He will deal out mercy. It is true that no one can demand that God have mercy on them as the Jews who Paul was addressing were doing. Therefore, God has the right to set the conditions on mercy. Far from being arbitrary, God is willing to give mercy to those who follow His conditions:
Many sorrows shall be to the wicked: but he that trusteth in the LORD, mercy shall compass him about. (Psalm 32:10)
For thou, Lord, art good, and ready to forgive; and plenteous in mercy unto all them that call upon thee. (Psalm 86:5)
So Romans 9:18 is not teaching that God is arbitrary in how He deals out mercy. Neither does He just arbitrarily harden people. Romans 1:24 teaches us that after some time, He gives people up and turns them over to their own lusts. This is what he did with Pharoah. Pharoah first hardened His own heart before God finally assisted in the process.
However, the best response to your Romans 9 prooftexts comes from Romans 9 itself:
But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness, hath not attained to the law of righteousness. Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law. For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. (Rom. 9:31-33)
God extends mercy to those who will believe of their own volition. No irresistable grace involved here, no arbitrary mercy extended. God is fair and gives every man equal opportunity to accept or reject His mercy. This passage answers all of your prooftexts and your out of context understanding of them.
well................what can i say?............just another one of those textual criticism arguments that goes against the clear teaching of the whole counsel of scripture.
OWORM............. you have unsubscribed from this thread
__________________ bookworm
You never really learn anything until you have to teach it. "The hardest thing for anyone to shake off is merit mentality" .............Cygnusx1
"If my God is not sovereign in all things,then you have to find me another God"
Praise God!
We get tired of hearing Presbyterian doctrine in the Charismatic section!
Presbyterian doctrine is biblcal doctrine. Look up the meaning of the word "Presbyter"
__________________ bookworm
You never really learn anything until you have to teach it. "The hardest thing for anyone to shake off is merit mentality" .............Cygnusx1
"If my God is not sovereign in all things,then you have to find me another God"
Do you really think in your own effort that you can talk a bull out of charging, when you are holding a big red scarf? Some people just want to argue and debate, with no real intention of listening to you or being open or respectful of your opinion. I am stubborn with my beliefs, but I also know that I don't know everything, and that I ALWAYS need to take it back to the Word of God, which is the final authority on ALL THINGS. When I as a WoF believer get accosted for the things I believe, I simple respond that it works for me, so who are you to knock it. If they were actually sincerely interested in what/how i believe and the results of God in my life, then I would most assuredly conversate with that idividual. Other wise, I make better use of my time, than talking to brick walls. Literally, when you visualize things for what they are, you stop and rethink your approach to people who really just want to get you "SAVED" all over again (make sense? didnt think so )
We should concern ourselves more with those who don't even have an opinion(for lack of knowledge), because we are too busy discussing 'our theories', and haven't bothered to stop and talk and reach out to the "precious fruit" of this world, who are dying and lost, and crying out for God! Where are we when THEY need someone to talk to!?
**yet again I have preached myself happy!, I love it when I do that. I point the finger at me! Y'all are big enough to point your own fingers at yourself**
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