Proverbs 25: 28 Like a city whose walls are broken down
is a man who lacks self-control.
Titus 2: 6
Similarly, encourage the young men to be self-controlled.
Galatians 5: 19-23
The acts of the sinful nature are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity and debauchery; idolatry and witchcraft; hatred, discord, jealousy, fits of rage, selfish ambition, dissensions, factions and envy; drunkenness, orgies, and the like. I warn you, as I did before, that those who live like this will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law.
1 Thessalonians 4: 1-5
Finally, brothers, we instructed you how to live in order to please God, as in fact you are living. Now we ask you and urge you in the Lord Jesus to do this more and more. For you know what instructions we gave you by the authority of the Lord Jesus. It is God's will that you should be sanctified: that you should avoid sexual immorality; that each of you should learn to control his own body in a way that is holy and honorable, not in passionate lust like the heathen, who do not know God.
The lack of self control is obviously a sin, so is lust. I think that everytime that You have sex it's because of lust so it's a sin. Not counting marriage ofcourse.
Masturbating sounds like not controling yourself so it would be a sin...
But it the bible doesn't specifiy which areas men should have self control ? Isn't equally likely that the bible was refering too having the self control to do a hard days labour to support a family ? Or the self control to shy away from what the bible defines as "sexual immorality". And yet nowhere, even when God was being painfully clear as to what was not allowed, did he say no masterbation. Also if its only men who need self control, are you then arguing its okay for women to masterbate and not men
I'd like to add that there's no indication that Adam and Eve didn't enjoy being in the garden of Eden, or having sex. In fact, since we look forward to being in heaven, I always assumed it would be enjoyable there. So did David:
Psalms 16:11
You have made known to me the path of life; you will fill me with joy in your presence, with eternal pleasures at your right hand.
God took pleasure in His creation, and therefore blessed it. I believe that one blessing of sex is children, but that sex is also something between a man and a woman alone. Who will say they may enjoy a kiss, but not sex? Touch, but don't feel? (It sounds a lot like Al Pacino in The Devil's Advocate). But didn't God say "Your desire will be for your husband"?
To do something for the sake of pleasure even when it's outside God's will is foolish, but that is not to say that there is no pleasure within God's will (cf. Prov. 10:23)! Our desire for our future spouse may be misdirected to our current relationship, and that desire could then be abused. Paul says in 1 Cor. 6:12-13:
"Everything is permissible for me"—but not everything is beneficial. "Everything is permissible for me"—but I will not be mastered by anything. "Food for the stomach and the stomach for food"—but God will destroy them both. The body is not meant for sexual immorality, but for the Lord, and the Lord for the body.
This applies to masturbation as well. It's not a sin per se, because on its own it does nothing and means nothing - there are no commandments about it - but when it starts becoming an obsession, and leading to sin, it is obviously unwanted. Paul doesn't put food in there for no reason, it's a good analogy: we always have the desire to eat, we get hungy, but should we let that desire determine our actions? Should we let it control us? That's where self-control comes in. Control yourself before you get into trouble; watch your tongue, watch your mind, watch your body. They are all meant to serve God, not our passions.
Don't just look at the warnings, look at the reasons for them.
Originally Posted by repentant
So what I'm trying to say is, when you use contraceptives (and for the sake of arguement let's say your married) you are not only taking away God's will and decision on who should have children and who should not, but you are also going against His reason for giving us sex in the first place. And you are making a personal passion, and self gratifying act, which is a form of idolatry*, instead of the blessed act God gave us.
But isn't it clear that God left that will and decision for having children largely up to us - be be honoured or abused? Why should God's will for our future only apply to children, but not for other considerations? I have friends who refuse to take out medical cover, because they consider it a motion of distrust in God. But then they blame people's sin when disaster strikes. To me, it's simple hyporisy. God gave us the ability to make wise decisions, and only asked that we trust Him with our decisions. When we "leave those decisions up to God", we are abdicating our responsibility.
In fact, this was Adam's reasoning: God gave him Eve, and Eve gave him the fruit. Wouldn't he be disobeying God by refusing something from Eve? The obvious answer is no, but that's the excuse Adam used ("The woman you put here with me..."). Are we refusing God when we interfere with the "natural" process of sex? I say "natural", because it's a mental decision - it's something we are supposed to take control over. We take control over it when we abstain from sex outside marriage, and we take control over it when we decide whether to abstain within marriage. Contraception is a way of exercizing this control, and no more unnatural than using medicine or supplements to control our health. God's intention with marriage was to create a new environment for relationships, which involves sex and children. Within this safe environment, decisions about sex and children are the parents' responsibility, something they have to take seriously. If we struggle to walk, we may use a stick to support us; if we will struggle to support children or to keep a family to a reasonable size, I think we may safely use contraceptives to aid us. Paul recognized our natural weakness (1 Cor. 7:5) and conceded to it, so why should we pretend we can control ourselves by pure force of will?
If you read the book of Genesis, the only time god mentions sexual relations, is when He tells Adam and Eve to be fruitful and multiply. No other mentioning of sex is there. So based on this, with that statement, you could see what God gave us sex for.
Contraception is unatural. When you use contraception, you are having sex for pleasures sake. Which in the quote I posted earlier is idolatry.
There is a difference between health medicines and birth control. 99.9% of medicines are natural, in other words taken from the earth. So God gave us these medicines, and he also gave us the intelligance to find them, and figure out there uses for keeping us from sickness. Birth control is much different. It causes an unatural occurence to happen in your body (prevention of egg, prevention of period, and prevention of any chance for pregnancy). When you take meds. let's say for a cold, all you are doing is returning your body to it's natural state, not causing it to go to an unatural state.
There is a difference between health medicines and birth control. 99.9% of medicines are natural, in other words taken from the earth. So God gave us these medicines, and he also gave us the intelligance to find them, and figure out there uses for keeping us from sickness. Birth control is much different. It causes an unatural occurence to happen in your body (prevention of egg, prevention of period, and prevention of any chance for pregnancy). When you take meds. let's say for a cold, all you are doing is returning your body to it's natural state, not causing it to go to an unatural state.
Medication natural ? Not so. Medications are drugs. Drugs alter that natural state of your body. Futhermore some medications can not be found in nature, like antibotics which are the most widely used drug in the world. By you reasoning that contraception is 'unnatural', then antibotics is going against Gods will too. Painkillers are unnatural too, pain is a natural thing to let us know something is very very wrong with our bodies. Is using painkillers going against Gods will too ? You are using your own concepts of what is natural (and thus godly) and what is unnatural (and thus ungodly). If God really didn't want us to do something, why does not the bible say directly not to do it.
Medication natural ? Not so. Medications are drugs. Drugs alter that natural state of your body. Futhermore some medications can not be found in nature, like antibotics which are the most widely used drug in the world. By you reasoning that contraception is 'unnatural', then antibotics is going against Gods will too. Painkillers are unnatural too, pain is a natural thing to let us know something is very very wrong with our bodies. Is using painkillers going against Gods will too ? You are using your own concepts of what is natural (and thus godly) and what is unnatural (and thus ungodly). If God really didn't want us to do something, why does not the bible say directly not to do it.
The reason the Bible does not mention it, is..
A) These things did not exist then
B) The Bible is not and does not claim to be the only source of Christain belief and practices. It did not even exist for the first 400 years of Christianity. We have Holy Tradition, that was passed on from the Apostolic and Church father's of the Ancient Church. The Bible was put together based on Holy Tradition not vice versa.
Also about meds. I repeat 99.9% of meds. are natural. You used the example of antibiotics. Do you know what an antibiotic is? It is a drug that fights an infection. Antibiotic, means anti bacterial. Antibiotics are made from the bacteria that cause the sickness, so it can give you the antibodies against it. Kind of like how anti venom is made from the venom of snakes, and the flu shot is nothing but a mild dose of the flu.
A) These things did not exist then
B) The Bible is not and does not claim to be the only source of Christain belief and practices. It did not even exist for the first 400 years of Christianity. We have Holy Tradition, that was passed on from the Apostolic and Church father's of the Ancient Church. The Bible was put together based on Holy Tradition not vice versa.
I'm sure some couple somewhere had sex before marriage
B)
The bible was based on Holy Tradition yes. The laws God has given to us via the profits (i know wrong profit lol) were not.
I never spoke of masterbation, but it is mentioned in the Bible as a sin against the body. and is a form of idolatry. Abortion is murder, murder is forbidden. There should be no reason to have differantiated between murder and abortion. It is one in the same. Also sexual immorality is forbidden in the Bible as well. Read the quotes I posted earlier. When I said it did not exist back then, I was speaking of contraception, because that is what I quoted and answered you on. You only mentioned meds. and contraception in your previous message.
The contraceptive pill is a dose of hormones. Isn't that natural?
No, because it causes unatural responses in your body. Like the non production of eggs, the prevention of your period, and the prevention of pregnancy. These are natural occurances of your body, and by taking contraception you stop this from happening. This is why it is unatural.
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