1 Cor. 11:3-16 Whatcha think?

#1 27th July 2001, 04:23 AM

Now I want you to realize that the head of every man is Christ, and the head of the woman is man, and the head of Christ is God.
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Every man who prays or prophesies with his head covered dishonors his head.
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And every woman who prays or prophesies with her head uncovered dishonors her head--it is just as though her head were shaved.
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If a woman does not cover her head, she should have her hair cut off; and if it is a disgrace for a woman to have her hair cut or shaved off, she should cover her head.
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A man ought not to cover his head,[2] since he is the image and glory of God; but the woman is the glory of man.
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For man did not come from woman, but woman from man;
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neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.
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For this reason, and because of the angels, the woman ought to have a sign of authority on her head.
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In the Lord, however, woman is not independent of man, nor is man independent of woman.
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For as woman came from man, so also man is born of woman. But everything comes from God.
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Judge for yourselves: Is it proper for a woman to pray to God with her head uncovered?
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Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him,
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but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering.
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If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice--nor do the churches of God.

Ok, I will probably get blasted, so please be gentle

. About six months ago, I reread this portion of scripture. I should add that I had just cut my hair very short, since I was a waitress at the time and I would get so sweaty...

.

I read it and read it and read it again. I couldn't see the "cultural" argument, because the context of God, Christ, man, woman was mentioned. I see it as no more "obscure" than the "baptism of the Holy Spirit" and besides all of the Bible is infallible, isn't it?

Just thought I would see what y'all thought.

#2 27th July 2001, 01:59 PM

Well, if you read all of it, you'll notice the verse that says "if any man seem contentious, then we have no such custom."

I currently have my hair long, but I don't always wear it long and I certainly don't wear it long for any legal reasons or because it makes me closer to God. :lol: I also don't wear a head-covering. My hair is my covering, but it doesn't have to be long to be a covering on my head. The Bible also says that my husband is my head and if his head is covered, then it's a shame! :lol: You can make a point for confusion, at the least, by yanking verses from here and there..

Don't worry about your hair. We have no such custom.

Karen

Josephus · #3 27th July 2001, 04:09 PM

Also notice this is a personal opinion of Paul, and that he lists no direct command of God. This is true in other letters where he gives explicit instruction, but it seems people always take them as verbatim God's command to them today when in fact the very first verse determines who is being addressed.

"Now I want you to realize..."

#4 27th July 2001, 06:56 PM

Thank you both for your response. But isn't the following true: 2 Tim 3:16

All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness

Or is that true only if we like and agree with the writer of the particular scripture? How can scripture be infallible if it is only a man's opinion?

These are some of the questions I ask myself and now y'all.

#5 27th July 2001, 07:24 PM

So what are you learning from the verse Linda?
Yes all scripture is God breathed but Paul notes that it is basically his opinion here concerning women.

Because of Christ, you are free to wear your hair however you like (as long as it isn't a point of contention between you and your husband).

*don't place yourself under any bondage when Jesus has made you free*

Z

#6 28th July 2001, 12:33 AM

Karen, in regards to this:

You can make a point for confusion, at the least, by yanking verses from here and there.

I am quite sure that I am not yanking verses from here and there. I posted the passage in its entirety.

Zamar,

Because of Christ, you are free to wear your hair however you like (as long as it isn't a point of contention between you and your husband).

*don't place yourself under any bondage when Jesus has made you free*

Do you think you could please show me where these verses are?

Also, fwiw, I thought we were set free from sin and guilt and given freedom to obey and do the right thing.

My friends, first of all, I do consider ya'll my friends, its only been the last month since I started wearing a headcovering full time. I had not yet gotten my skirts make for working at Cracker Barrel! Now I don't have to worry about that and it just didn't seem quite right to wear a headcovering and pants. :lol:

I posted this a) because I am wondering if anyone else has ever been bothered by these scriptures.

I am not trying to be contentious, nor will I continue this thread unless y'all want to.

Again, my problem when I first reread this passage was that none of the "traditions" that I've been taught held any water.

Be blessed.

#7 28th July 2001, 01:15 AM

LindaLou,
If someone wants you to cover your head because of some "Holiness" thing , please consider the following scripture.

1 Peter 3 1-4

Likewise wives be in subjection to your own husband (not the Church "my opinion") that if any obey not the word they also may without the word be won by the conversation (lifestyle) of their wife.

VERSE 3... Whose adorning let it not be the outward of plating the hair, and the wearing gold or the putting on of apparel. VERSE 4... but let it be the hidden man of the heart in the which is not corruptible, of a meek and quiet spirit which is in the sight of God of great price.

IF you are being made to cover your head and wear long skirts because of a holiness thing.... According to verse 3 of 1 Peter 3, you are not to wear clothes at all. He stated the wearing of apparel.....

True holiness is a state of the heart, not the clothes.

(If your husband wants you to dress this way because of a Church law then if you agree, do it) But God doesn't require it of you.

Z

Josephus · #8 28th July 2001, 07:15 AM

Let me ask you this question:

What is scripture? What is the word of God? Is the word of God something like "and he killed a thousand phillistines that day?" on the same par as scripture as "For God so loved the world..."?

What is scripture, and which of that scripture is actually God's written word?

People are obviously inspired when they write what God is speaking, but are people just as inspired when they just write their own opinion in a letter later taken as authoritative because the author was an apostle?

We have to learn to weigh scripture for what it is. If Paul says it's a command of God, then that scripture too is backed up with other scripture, but if it is an opinion, then we note that Paul does not say it is a God-command, but rather it is Paul giving a Paul-command to his own churches. Reread the context of the letter and look for key phrases that indicate how and why Paul is writing a particular paragraph - and try your best to ignore the chapter divisions as originally the text was all one giant letter. When you do that, you get a better understanding of what the 'scripture' is saying, and an idea of how or if it applies to us what is being written. This is called proper hermanuetics.

#9 28th July 2001, 04:17 PM

Hi Linda,

I think you've misunderstood. I meant that in legalistic circles they will yank that verse and one from somewhere else to make sure that women have to live like they say in order to be saved...that's what I was pointing out.

Sorry for the confusion.

Karen

#10 28th July 2001, 04:57 PM

Jospehus is correct. If we were to apply all of Paul's opinions as if they were a direct command from the Lord, none of us would have ever married. Paul preferred to stay single and told the church to remain that way if possible.

Holiness is an internal character, not an outward covering.

Z