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  #1  
Old 27th September 2005, 03:28 PM
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Baptist vs Presbyterian

Help me out here, what is/are the theological difference(s) between Baptists and Presbyterians? I don't necessarily need proofs or anything like that at this time, just need the differences theologically.

As a bonus - do they differ in worship styles?
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Old 27th September 2005, 03:40 PM
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One difference between a Presbyterian and Baptist is a Presbyterian will say hello to you in the liquor store.
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Old 27th September 2005, 03:44 PM
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But on the serious side.

That depends on what flavor of Baptist you are talking about.

The Baptists are not monolithic.

If you are talking about Free Will Baptists, then the differences are wide and deep.

If you are talking about Southern Baptists the differences are many but not as with the FW Baptists.

If you are talking about the breakaway Jimmah Cartah baptists, then the difference is as the difference between east and west.

Southern Baptists reject Unconditional Election, Limited Atonement and pervert Perseverance of the Saints.That is three for starters.
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Old 27th September 2005, 03:46 PM
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Ooops, Southern Baptists also reject Irresistable Grace.
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Old 27th September 2005, 04:41 PM
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From an American Baptist standpoint (which I'm familiar with) it just seems watered down. They believe in predestination (some do anyway) but don't take it any further than that, like they don't want to think too hard. Of course they still do the perseverance of the saints. I can also verify they don't teach limited atonement.
1)Any info on American Baptists beyond this?

2)Also, do Presbyterian churches do any modern worship?

I know not all Baptists do but the church I currently attend does some modern worship music. My wife and I are disenchanted (I know that's not the best word but there are a lot of factors involved) with our church and may look elsewhere.

3)Are all Presbyterian churches 5 point Calvinists?
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Old 27th September 2005, 04:52 PM
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I'll give you my church and the differences:

worship style--we do praise and worship, modern music with a full band etc etc

typical hour--25 to 30 minutes of singing and 30 minutes or so of the service--services are done as "series"--some on books of the bible, some on modern themes, some on theology(had a 10 week series on GRACE earlier this year)

Credobaptism--as opposed to paedobaptism

Communion--once a month on a Wednesday--we practice open communion with grape juice and bits of bread

No creeds or confessions-- we don't have any creeds or confessions we must agree with to become a member, but you must be baptised--infant baptism is ok(but you can be re-baptised if you really want--it's not recommended) and so is baptism by pouring or sprinkling.

Hmmm, I'm not sure I can think of anything else. As Augustinewascalvinist pointed out--Free Will baptist are WAY WAY different, and there are alot of different "kinds" of baptists out there. I'd say the Reformed Baptists are the closest. My church is a Calvinistic Baptist church. We are actually a community church, but for all entents and purposes we are baptist. I think our pastor chose the community church names because he didn't want to scare away anyone who has/had a negative view of baptists(like me, I never would have attended if it had Baptist in the name--my ONLY experience with baptists was a southern baptist church in southern ohio that told my dad to make my mom be quiet in church and was very racist)

hope that helped some.....
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Old 27th September 2005, 04:59 PM
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[quote]
Originally Posted by Defcon
From an American Baptist standpoint (which I'm familiar with) it just seems watered down. They believe in predestination (some do anyway) but don't take it any further than that, like they don't want to think too hard. Of course they still do the perseverance of the saints. I can also verify they don't teach limited atonement.
my church teaches limited atonement, but he's not pounding the pulpit with the message.....I agree that they can water it down a bit. As a new calvinist, I want my pastor to be up there talking about it as much as possible but i realize that he's got to teach other stuff too
1)Any info on American Baptists beyond this?
From what I understand, the ABC is not as much as a denominations of baptist as a "club"--I think. For example our church belongs to the ABC because they can get resources on missions etc--but we are actually General Baptist Conference "denomination". Heck, I could have this backward..I'm pretty new to the whole baptist thing.....

2)Also, do Presbyterian churches do any modern worship?
don't know--I do know that the PCUSA church across the street has a service that does do modern worship they just instituted, but I'm not sure if that's norm....

I know not all Baptists do but the church I currently attend does some modern worship music. My wife and I are disenchanted (I know that's not the best word but there are a lot of factors involved) with our church and may look elsewhere.
sorry to hear that......

3)Are all Presbyterian churches 5 point Calvinists?
They claim to be, but from what I've heard around here(on CF) they don't all actually do believe it, some of the PCUSA's are getting away from that....

You know, I just noticed that you are Baptist looking to change to Presbyterian(maybe) so my answers probably aren't helpfull at all! LOL oh well.......
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Old 27th September 2005, 06:30 PM
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It's ok.... I grew up Methodist, started going to a Baptist Church when I was in high school. I was really drawn to OSAS and as I read more and more, I found the Doctrines of Grace. I wouldn't say I live in a small town but there are definitely a lot bigger cities than where I live. I say that to say that I have a pretty good feel for the Baptist churches in my area and the best way I can describe them is "luke-warm". They call it "seeker-friendly" .

For instance, my church is relatively new (5 years old) and we were in a leadership conference with a pastor of one of the two large Baptist churches in our area. We were suggesting (my wife, me, and a couple others) that our church become a little more theologically sound - in other words, take a position on some things. When asked for an example, I brought up predestination vs. free-will and this pastor replied "Does that really matter?" in a rhetorical tone. Um YES! This is the kind of attitude that most of our churches have -"Here is a warm and fuzzy feeling, take it home with you and when you come back next week we'll give you another one. Don't worry about theology - it is too offensive."

Sorry I'm ranting, but that's some of the background and that's why I'm curious about presbyterian vs. baptist. A Reformed Baptist Church would be ideal, but I don't have one of those in my area.....
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  #9  
Old 27th September 2005, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by Defcon
It's ok.... I grew up Methodist, started going to a Baptist Church when I was in high school. I was really drawn to OSAS and as I read more and more, I found the Doctrines of Grace. I wouldn't say I live in a small town but there are definitely a lot bigger cities than where I live. I say that to say that I have a pretty good feel for the Baptist churches in my area and the best way I can describe them is "luke-warm". They call it "seeker-friendly" .

For instance, my church is relatively new (5 years old) and we were in a leadership conference with a pastor of one of the two large Baptist churches in our area. We were suggesting (my wife, me, and a couple others) that our church become a little more theologically sound - in other words, take a position on some things. When asked for an example, I brought up predestination vs. free-will and this pastor replied "Does that really matter?" in a rhetorical tone. Um YES! This is the kind of attitude that most of our churches have -"Here is a warm and fuzzy feeling, take it home with you and when you come back next week we'll give you another one. Don't worry about theology - it is too offensive."

Sorry I'm ranting, but that's some of the background and that's why I'm curious about presbyterian vs. baptist. A Reformed Baptist Church would be ideal, but I don't have one of those in my area.....
yea, I get where you are coming from. Our church is also relatively new (7 years) and is "seeker friendly" -our pastor makes no bones about it. Although the way he describes seeker friendly and the way I have heard it from other people is totally different!

We had been going for about a year, and while I really liked the church, I felt that the services were pure milk and I needed more. It was about then that I had discovered the Doctrines of Grace and was seriously considering talking to my husband about finding another church when our pastor started a series on Grace. It was about 10 weeks long and he covered the Doctrines of Grace in it. I was sooo relieved! But at the same time worried, because I was afraid he'd go back to doing the same ole' same ole' (milk and cookies anyone?) But I've been pleasantly suprised. He had such an overwhelmingly positive response on that series that he's incorporated more and more meat into the sermons. Not enough for me yet, but I understand that there are alot of christians there who still need the milk. I'm just glad that he's taken the step toward stronger preaching. I'm curious to see where it leads, hopefully away from the whole Pastor Warren thing and into a more boldly Calvinistic teaching.

The cool thing is that it was some of his closest friends and elders of the church that told him he was getting too lukewarm and needed to really lay things out for the church. We are getting ready to build a new church (our first--we are in a converted warehouse right now) and we are on the threshhold of a new "era" so to speak. I'm glad he's taking the steps now to lay out what the church stands for and where it's going--and I'm glad that the elders are in sync with it!

anyway, this is totally off topic, I just felt like sharing...I'm such a motormouth sometimes......
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  #10  
Old 27th September 2005, 07:25 PM
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Churches and Religion Organizations I have attended over the years (46 years). I have missed a few since I was so young to remember the name of the churches that my parents took me. Also quick "one-time" visits to churches will also be missed.

First Congregational Church (MA); Calvary Baptist Church (Independent)(MA); Trinity Baptist Church (Independent) (MA); Ruggles Baptist Church (Independent) (MA); Boston School for the Deaf/Sisters of St. Joseph (Catholic),(MA); First Baptist Church (MA); Bible Baptist Church (MA); Island Baptist Church (FLA); Holy Family Parish (Catholic) (MA); United Methodist Church,(OH); Assembly of God Church (OH); Lane Avenue Baptist Church SBC (OH); Calvary Bible Baptist Church (OH); Liberty Baptist Church of Deaf (OH); Firestone Road Baptist Church (Independent) (OH); Safe Harbor Foursquare Church (MA); Grace Brethren Church (Anabaptist) (OH)......

Now my wife and I are joining a local Presbyterian church (PCA).

* All churches I visited worship differently
* All churches I visited preached differently
* Some baptist churches are into legalism
* Some baptist churches are into Fundamentalism
* Some baptist churches are into liberalism
* Doctrines are different in almost all baptist churches I visited

In over-all, I have learned that Baptist doctrines are so similar to Presbyterian's doctrines. There are some Baptist churches that are more reformed and teaches calvism. Some are not calvism. I can go on.
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