Lds Q&a

unbound · #61 21st September 2005, 08:57 AM

Originally Posted by fatboys

You know I wish that I could instill in you what I know. I have no disagreement with these statements, but you are only looking at it from a limited perspective. Who are those will abide in this realm? They are only there, and they will only be tormented because of their own internal bitterness, and negative character flaws. The place of hell is from within oneself. The anquish of not being able to progress and knowing what one could have had.

If we stick to the bible we find that both hell and the lake of fire are real and not just within ones own mind.

Revelation 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. 14 And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. 15 And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

Im telling ya fatboys, you should really look in to this.

Ran77 · #62 21st September 2005, 10:37 AM

Originally Posted by unbound

At least I hope you will see why I say there will be a real fire and who will end up there.

I'm not sure that I do. If you wish, give it another try.

Originally Posted by unbound

I was kind of hoping you would comment on the material I included, instead of the one sentence you thought was meant to degrade.

My experience has been, that someone that immediatly starts a discussion in this manner will quickly abandon arguments of logic and resort to personal attacks. I was expressing why I didn't see it necessary to continue on with a discussion.

However, you offered an apology and that could be a sign that I am mistaken in this situation. If you post something to me I will respond.

Ran77 · #63 21st September 2005, 10:51 AM

Originally Posted by Tawhano

Yet you said the people thrown into the lake of fire are in a lesser glory. It is this lake of fire that Satan is thrown and all those who don’t partake of the resurrection of the just are cast along with Satan into this realm.

(Book of Mormon | Jacob 3:11)
11 O my brethren, hearken unto my words; arouse the faculties of your souls; shake yourselves that ye may awake from the slumber of death; and loose yourselves from the pains of hell that ye may not become angels to the devil, to be cast into that lake of fire and brimstone which is the second death.

If the pains of hell are internal anquish, then being in hell does not require that everyone be in the same place. We see this in life already - how many times do people claim to already be in hell, because of their miserable state. And yet, they are not all in the same location.

Being cast into the fire is symbolic of being placed at a location where they will then suffer the guilt of their sins.

Originally Posted by Tawhano

Then how can you say that the lake of fire is a torment cause by knowing the sins you committed and being reminded of it in the presents of God?

I believe that coming before God, in judgment, awakens this sense of guilt. I don't propose that is only felt in His presence. However, I believe that it is felt more acutely in His presence.

(Sorry, gotta go. If you feel I didn't answer this fully let me know and I will give another stab at it.)

Tawhano · #64 21st September 2005, 12:07 PM

Originally Posted by Ran77

If the pains of hell are internal anquish, then being in hell does not require that everyone be in the same place. We see this in life already - how many times do people claim to already be in hell, because of their miserable state. And yet, they are not all in the same location.

Being cast into the fire is symbolic of being placed at a location where they will then suffer the guilt of their sins.

Regardless if the lake of fire is symbolic or not the ones who are cast into that situation do in fact reside in the same place as Satan.

(Book of Mormon | Mosiah 16:11)
11 If they be good, to the resurrection of endless life and happiness; and if they be evil, to the resurrection of endless damnation, being delivered up to the devil, who hath subjected them, which is damnation—

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 29:38)
38 And, behold, there is a place prepared for them from the beginning, which place is hell.

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 76:36 - 37)
36 These are they who shall go away into the lake of fire and brimstone, with the devil and his angels—
37 And the only ones on whom the second death shall have any power;

(Doctrine and Covenants | Section 88:113 - 114)
113 And the devil shall gather together his armies; even the hosts of hell, and shall come up to battle against Michael and his armies.
114 And then cometh the battle of the great God; and the devil and his armies shall be cast away into their own place, that they shall not have power over the saints any more at all.

Wherever Satan is there those who were cast into the fire will be.

Originally Posted by Ran77

I don't propose that is only felt in His presence.

Sorry, I must have misunderstood you then because that is exactly what I thought you were saying. So the torment isn’t so bad after they are tossed into this symbolic fire because they are no longer in the presents of God?

unbound · #65 21st September 2005, 03:11 PM

Originally Posted by Ran77

I'm not sure that I do. If you wish, give it another try.

My experience has been, that someone that immediatly starts a discussion in this manner will quickly abandon arguments of logic and resort to personal attacks. I was expressing why I didn't see it necessary to continue on with a discussion.

However, you offered an apology and that could be a sign that I am mistaken in this situation. If you post something to me I will respond.

I suppose we were both at fault- I presumed you just didnt like what you were hearing and attempted to paint my post as hostile so you wouldnt have to deal with it.

All of that aside, we were discussing whether the lake of fire will be a real thing or something that is within ones self.

Do you think these 3 verse are related, and what are they describing?

Revelation 20:10
And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

2 Peter 3:7
But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men.

Revelation 20:15
And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.