| Unorthodox Theology A forum to discuss/debate theological doctrines not accepted by mainstream evangelical Christianity (eg. Full Preterism, Unitarianism)
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15th September 2005, 09:39 AM
|  | When I am slain may my corpse lie facing the Enemy 37 
| | Join Date: 16th August 2005 Location: Pompey
Posts: 3,820
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Reps: 4,583,915,400,580 (power: 4,583,915,411) | | | I liked the bit about Paul being the anti-christ!
My money is still on Bush for that role....
__________________ We all see dimly. | 
15th September 2005, 09:45 AM
| | Have you found the Yellow Sign? 57  | | Join Date: 18th May 2002
Posts: 30,864
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Reps: 539,204,124,155,753,536 (power: 539,204,124,155,795) | | I liked the bit about Paul being the anti-christ!
My money is still on Bush for that role....
I thought it was this guy? 
tulc(not sure about Bush, pretty sure Paul isn't!)
__________________ I'm a firm believer in Arkham's Razor:
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15th September 2005, 10:36 AM
| | Senior Veteran 30  | | Join Date: 6th July 2003 Location: Paris
Posts: 2,274
Blessings: 212,858
Reps: 8,253 (power: 20) | | Yet not what Yeshua stated in Matthew, Mark and Luke as these things he said, have been said by Buddha, Lao Tzu and are light and easy to accept.
I was thinking about this thread some more. It becomes clearer and clearer to me that who ever wrote the book of John, whether he was a pharasee in the past or not, whether he was a jew or not, whether he was a very greek jew or not, halaf half, or whatever, he was very anti pharasee.
Here is my logic: what did Yeshua accuse the pharasees of? Making up many little rules that you have to follow or else you will be in the wrong, making up rediculous rules that don't searve a thing, showing off how religeous they were (fasts, tithes, praying out load), shining the outside very well with multitudes of "exterior" comand fullfilling.
"John" is saying: this exterior stuff isn't enough. There is something deeper and more important: spiritual awakening. Being "pluged into the vine" which is Yeshua. Bearing good fruit. Good fruit that means love. It's something beyond the exterior acts, it's the inner motivation that is changed by God and that produces exterior acts that are much more true, because they aren't hypocritical, they have to do with inner change.
That is the big difference with the other religions. That is why christianity is for the sick and the weak who aren't able to be good and do good on their own. It's for those who need help changing. It's for the love thirsty. "John" understood this. (Those of you christian who are storng are free to dissagree)
I may be wrong but this disscussion on the first three gospels verses the fourth reminds me of psychologist Scott Peck's books: In "the road less traveled" he hints that spiritual growth and learning how to love are the point of this life. He advises to do so through dicipline, delayed gratification, and balancing. He leaves the choice to you. In his second book, I think it is titled "more on the road less traveled" he doesn't do any more hinting, he doesn't give any more advice. He tells you that there is simply no other way.
This reminds me of the first three gospels. Yeshua is hinting, being soft. Then in the last book, you see the other facet: there is no other way.
It is normal that there be a difference between christianity and other religions. If all truth were already revealed clearly in other religions, Yeshua wouldn't need to come. I say this as a person who believes that God does find a way to manifest himself through other religions. Other religions may understand a facet we don't. | 
15th September 2005, 10:56 AM
| | Legend

| | Join Date: 10th May 2004
Posts: 20,237
Blessings: 8,042
Reps: 682,939,636,521,177,984 (power: 682,939,636,521,208) | | Originally Posted by Multi-Elis I was thinking about this thread some more. It becomes clearer and clearer to me that who ever wrote the book of John, whether he was a pharasee in the past or not, whether he was a jew or not, whether he was a very greek jew or not, halaf half, or whatever, he was very anti pharasee.
Here is my logic: what did Yeshua accuse the pharasees of? Making up many little rules that you have to follow or else you will be in the wrong, making up rediculous rules that don't searve a thing, showing off how religeous they were (fasts, tithes, praying out load), shining the outside very well with multitudes of "exterior" comand fullfilling.
"John" is saying: this exterior stuff isn't enough. There is something deeper and more important: spiritual awakening. Being "pluged into the vine" which is Yeshua. Bearing good fruit. Good fruit that means love. It's something beyond the exterior acts, it's the inner motivation that is changed by God and that produces exterior acts that are much more true, because they aren't hypocritical, they have to do with inner change.
That is the big difference with the other religions. That is why christianity is for the sick and the weak who aren't able to be good and do good on their own. It's for those who need help changing. It's for the love thirsty. "John" understood this. (Those of you christian who are storng are free to dissagree)
I may be wrong but this disscussion on the first three gospels verses the fourth reminds me of psychologist Scott Peck's books: In "the road less traveled" he hints that spiritual growth and learning how to love are the point of this life. He advises to do so through dicipline, delayed gratification, and balancing. He leaves the choice to you. In his second book, I think it is titled "more on the road less traveled" he doesn't do any more hinting, he doesn't give any more advice. He tells you that there is simply no other way.
This reminds me of the first three gospels. Yeshua is hinting, being soft. Then in the last book, you see the other facet: there is no other way.
It is normal that there be a difference between christianity and other religions. If all truth were already revealed clearly in other religions, Yeshua wouldn't need to come. I say this as a person who believes that God does find a way to manifest himself through other religions. Other religions may understand a facet we don't.
great post! couldn't give you reps, so i'll rep you here, just no points add, hehe | 
15th September 2005, 11:50 AM
|  | When I am slain may my corpse lie facing the Enemy 37 
| | Join Date: 16th August 2005 Location: Pompey
Posts: 3,820
Blessings: 102,929
Reps: 4,583,915,400,580 (power: 4,583,915,411) | | Originally Posted by tattedsaint great post! couldn't give you reps, so i'll rep you here, just no points add, hehe 
agree-diddly-eeeed
__________________ We all see dimly. | 
15th September 2005, 06:07 PM
| | Regular Member 35  | | Join Date: 10th November 2004 Location: Nottingham
Posts: 125
Blessings: 110,114
Reps: 1,073 (power: 10) | | | Why was he Anti-Pharisee?
With scriptures?
Peace N love B with U | 
15th September 2005, 06:51 PM
| | Have you found the Yellow Sign? 57  | | Join Date: 18th May 2002
Posts: 30,864
Blessings: 354
Reps: 539,204,124,155,753,536 (power: 539,204,124,155,795) | | Hey just in case you missed these I thought I'd repost them! Do you have any knowledge of the Jewish sects in the first century CE?
Do you know that the Pharisees believed in the Oral and Written Torah?
Do you know that the Pharisees believed in the resurrection of the dead?
Did you know that the President of the Sanhedrin was a Pharisee?
Did you know that the High Priest was a Saduccee who was given his post from Caesar? (emph. added)
tulc(just in case you missed them)
__________________ I'm a firm believer in Arkham's Razor:
The simplest explanation tends to be Cthulhu To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
a one word description of 99% of the internet: Ultracrepidarian
"I resent there not being a National Psychopath Dat."
-SolomonVII To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts. | 
15th September 2005, 07:34 PM
|  | Old Catholic Priest 56 
| | Join Date: 29th June 2004 Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 1,130
Blessings: 118,548
Reps: 2,899 (power: 12) | | | I am absolutly stunned that this thread has lated as long as it has, and that obvioulsy smart people have been trying to get our friend wiz to actually look into the history and facts,
it doesn't appear that it will work, but congrats all of you on an act of love.
Now for some liner notes:
Paul was not the anti-christ, for one thing he was too early. His theology had some flaws, but that happens to the best of us.
Jesus is probably not the Jewish messiah, as our friend points out he does not appear to have met the requirements for the job.
Jesus IS the living God, the font of a new covenant with all the nations. For God so loved the world he sent his only begotton son...., as job descriptions go probably a step up from the messiah for a single, exhaulted, race of people.
Love God, love your neighbor and keep the commandments and all will be well.
__________________ Rev. Mark A.W. Smith, O.C.C. M.Th. St. Fechin's Old Catholic Church All are welcome to God's table. By this shall you know them | 
16th September 2005, 02:06 AM
|  | When I am slain may my corpse lie facing the Enemy 37 
| | Join Date: 16th August 2005 Location: Pompey
Posts: 3,820
Blessings: 102,929
Reps: 4,583,915,400,580 (power: 4,583,915,411) | | | And drink Mead, rev. Always with the drinking and liberal blessing of the earth with Mead.
__________________ We all see dimly. | 
16th September 2005, 02:43 AM
| | Regular Member 35  | | Join Date: 10th November 2004 Location: Nottingham
Posts: 125
Blessings: 110,114
Reps: 1,073 (power: 10) | | LoL
(tulc) Yes I did and why I say the book of John, was to put the Jewish people off Christ.
As it has done~!
Oh wait you don't think he is Christ???
Can anyone actually post scripture why not, without using anything by Paul and John?
Also unless you are saying that all of John is made up, how could he have known the private Jewish high council meetings?
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