I don't know what I was sucked into as a new believer...over 30 years ago. But the ministry was focusd on going back...retrieving memories...crying your guts out over them...I nearly had a nervous breakdown and my physical health was broken...I went anorexic...all the while thinking this is "good" for me...
Boy, I have survived "church"...LOL
What citypastor is saying is my direction now...and I have an online pastor giving very simple...word, Christ centered teaching...finally.
I have learned to pour out my heart...but I pour it out to the Lord, much like what David did as we read in the psalms...and I do not "dig" for anything...anymore.
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All the ends of the world shall remember
and turn to the Lord,
And all the families of the nations shall worship before You.
For the kingdom is the Lord's,
and
He rules over the nations.
Psalm 22:27-28
I don't know what I was sucked into as a new believer...over 30 years ago. But the ministry was focusd on going back...retrieving memories...crying your guts out over them...I nearly had a nervous breakdown and my physical health was broken...I went anorexic...all the while thinking this is "good" for me..."
Whatever this was, it was not Theophostic.
Theophostic is about God showing you truth and healing... AND it's only about 3 or 4 years old.
Theophostic is about God showing you truth and healing... AND it's only about 3 or 4 years old.
The pastor just called it healing of the memories...wish I had never met that man...but the Lord has used everything for my good. I am still here, in the faith.
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All the ends of the world shall remember
and turn to the Lord,
And all the families of the nations shall worship before You.
For the kingdom is the Lord's,
and
He rules over the nations.
Psalm 22:27-28
Wouldn’t you agree that we are in very deceptive times?
The scriptures have many references to how easily people are deceived and many of those refer to believers. False prophets and diviners deceive (Jer. 29:8). Many false prophets have gone out into the world to deceive (1 John 4:1). Friends deceive. (Obad. 1:7). Spirits deceive with false doctrine (1 Tim. 4:1). Pride deceives (Obad. 1:3, Jer. 49:16). Many will come in Jesus’ name to deceive (Luke 21:8). People who think they are wise by the standards of this age deceive themselves (1 Cor. 3:18). People using fine-sounding arguments deceive (Col. 2:4). False apostles deceive (2 Cor. 11:13). Passions and pleasures deceive (***. 3:3). Evil men and imposters deceive and are themselves deceived (2 Tim. 3:13). People who listen to God’s word and do not do what it says are deceived (James 1:22). False signs and lying wonders deceive (Mark 13:22, Rev. 13:14, 2 Thess. 2:9). The Devil deceives (Gen. 3:13, Rev. 20:10). Sin deceives (Romans 7:11). Flattering lies deceive (Psa. 12:2, Romans 16:18). Lastly, the human heart is deceitful above all else (Jer. 17:9).
Satans plan for the end of the ages! In essence, in regard the New Age as a counterfeit system of religion devised by Satan to be an attractive alternative to Bible-based Christianity. Its ultimate goal is to lead the churches into a great apostasy in preparation for the appearance of the Antichrist, so that he will be accepted as the Messiah by both Christians and New Agers alike. Their plan was to weaken the doctrine of Christianity by removing slowly from our vocabulary – sin and repentance.
Ed Smith’s Theophostics presupposes that we must go back in the PAST to find the "lie" that is hidden somewhere in the "dark room" of their deep subconscious. His technique then goes into his method to generate an altered state of consciousness. The client is to let their mind drift into the past, until the "lie" (which must be there, says theophostics) is discovered in a dark, hidden place. Then there's this "stirring up the darkness" where the client to is to focus on the "lie" and repeat it over and over, re-feeling and re-living the pain and emotions that are associated with it.
Good technique for inducing an altered state of consciousness. The occult has perfected such techniques for many years. Through new age techniques through eastern mystic religions, which is the same that Ed Smith uses, except they use angels and spirit guides and even Jesus if the, get mental and physical healing as well. Ed Smith calls for Jesus, which are truly spirit guides. Both of these methods produce the altered states of consciousness. Ed Smith says that he discovered this in technique in 1996. This technique of healing has been around for many many years by the new agers!
God Forbid that people can think such things are Christian or Biblical. The one part of his being that a Christian will never surrender control of is his mind. The self control fruit of the spirit must be most diligently applied regarding the mind. We are to take every thought captive to the mind of Christ. We are to gird up our minds 1 Pet 1:13. We are to have our mind renewed by the Holy Spirit of Truth.
What happens during Theophostic session. One, when you go back into your memory, you’re your are producing a state of Theta. Theta is an altered state. Then when you go look for Jesus in the memory, do you think it is Jesus? The counselee victim into a hypnotic trance, entice him into throwing away his ability to reason out of it, create enough feelings of evil that a Holy God would never associate with it, eliminate the possibility that God would enter by presumptuously commanding that God come when he calls, then inject a counterfeit Jesus-spirit guide to take control of the subject and induce a "high." Success is then proclaimed, because when the counselee comes out of it, he FEELS delivered and healed. What has really happened? His conscience has just been seared with a hot iron. He was fooled to believe it was a Jesus when it was a spirit guide portaying a Jesus in he counselee’s memory.
The Jesus-apparition/presence encounter is the most frightening part of all of Theophostics. Theophostics can have God at your beck and call. A Jesus appearition is always available when ever you say.
Satan is a master of wiles. What bothers me, is that supposed men of God, supposed of full age in the Word of God, could bring such into their churches. Satan comes as an angel of light. One of the devils favorite wiles is to impersonate God. He still labors in that delusion. Ed Smith’s Breakthroughs and great victories are great victories of the devil. The breakthrough is the seared conscience that comes with giving ground to a very STRONG DELUSION. Yet, the Word of God tells us even the very elect would be deceived if it were possible.
Why would anyone want to do the same thing that the new agers have been doing for many years? They use the same models for healing that Ed Smith does.
Isn’t there only two kingdoms? One that is the spirit of god and the other satan?
Doesn’t Satan heal as well? So, what spirit do you think is behind Theophostics.
Do you think you can call Jesus in your memory any time you want?
Satan is a deciever. He comes as an angel of light. Jesus told us Satan comes to steal, kill, and destroy. The devil first deceives a person. Satan lures through lust of the flesh or some other object of human desire. The devil gets one to listen to him instead of God, and very often will give a person what they desired. Then, God's protection is lifted. Satan will then hurt him and unless the ground given is taken back, destroy that soul in hell.
Did Jesus do inner healing in the bible? Did he teach his disciples inner healing or did he send them out two by two doing repentance and deliverance?
Do you see any examples in the bible about Theophostics?
The bait or object of desire, which is a good feeling about one’s self, concerning one's past, is granted. But with a stronghold established, the devil will then attack the person in some other way. The attack will likely be in a way that is totally unrelated. Theophostic victims and practitioners will not make the connection. Ground is given and remains. The end may be infinitely worse off than when he started. Theophostic breakthrough is a victory for demons by getting the person to focus on SELF. Self is the problem. You are not delivered because you FEEL good about your self and have a better self image. Wow, they even call it Self Image. Could Self Image be an IDOL?
Also, Jesus coming into the Memory: The idea that God's omnipresence resides within human memory or that God is somehow required to reveal his presence within one's memory is neither part of orthodox theology nor a concept found in scripture.
Sin-based theology believes that the root of my problem is my sin,” said Ed Smith. He said he has “come to realize this is a misconception and a grave error.” Once a person becomes a believer, Smith said, “the source of my sin problem is no longer in my heart since I now share the very heart of Jesus … my trouble with sin is now in my mind or lie-based thinking.” Smith calls this new insight lie-based theology.
In important fact is that Smith’s core shift in doctrine — “lie-based theology” — bears striking similarity to Gnostic beliefs about the causes of sin in a person’s life. “Gnostics do not look to salvation from sin (original or other), but rather from the ignorance of which sin is a consequence. Ignorance — whereby is meant ignorance of spiritual realities — is dispelled only by Gnosis, and the decisive revelation of Gnosis is brought by the Messengers of Light, especially by Christ, the Logos of the True God. It is not by His suffering and death but by His life of teaching and His establishing of mysteries that Christ has performed His work of salvation.”
“Three risks of making woundedness the root of sinfulness: ... 1) minimizes the seriousness of sin, ... 2) minimizes the glory of forgiveness and repentance, ... 3) minimizes the power of spiritual disciplines ... on the issues of sin and healing, the question remains for Christian counselors and the evangelical community as a whole as to whether Smith's theological basis is consistent with responsible biblical doctrine.
When a person forgives another person for the wrong from their heart, then that person is free from the torment and pain. In Matthew 18 talks about when we do not forgive, then we can be thrown to the tormentors.
The word “occult” comes from the Latin “occultus” which means “concealed.” In its usage today, it means “beyond the bounds of ordinary knowledge — the mysterious, the concealed, or that which is hidden from view. Is Dr. Smith going to memories that are hidden?
If anyone can show me specifically when Jesus or the desciples did inner healing, then show it to me. I would love to see it. The Word of God is to be used as our example so that we don't fall into error. Because you are getting healing does not mean it comes from the Lord, because Satan heals too. It says it in the word.
So, if anyone wants to dispute me, then show me your dispute with scripture.
Last edited by whitedove7; 26th September 2005 at 05:27 PM.
Reason: Add something1
I'm not going to focus on all your scriptures about deception, because I don't believe they are relevant to the discussion. You are giving a very twisted version of what Theophostic Prayer Ministry is -- you're right; the way you're telling it, it *does* sound New Agey. The thing is, though, is that what you're describing is not Theophostic Prayer.
Originally Posted by whitedove7
[...]
Originally Posted by whitedove7
In essence, in regard the New Age as a counterfeit system of religion devised by Satan to be an attractive alternative to Bible-based Christianity. [...]Their plan was to weaken the doctrine of Christianity by removing slowly from our vocabulary – sin and repentance.
See, this has nothing to do with Theophostic. Nothing about Theophostic precludes the idea of repenting from sin, or is anything but Bible-based.
Originally Posted by whitedove
Ed Smith’s Theophostics presupposes that we must go back in the PAST to find the "lie" that is hidden somewhere in the "dark room" of their deep subconscious. His technique then goes into his method to generate an altered state of consciousness. The client is to let their mind drift into the past, until the "lie" (which must be there, says theophostics) is discovered in a dark, hidden place. Then there's this "stirring up the darkness" where the client to is to focus on the "lie" and repeat it over and over, re-feeling and re-living the pain and emotions that are associated with it.
Originally Posted by whitedove
Again, this is misleading. For one thing, everything that we have ever experienced is in the "PAST," whether it was at birth or 30 seconds ago. So yes, that part is true, but it's not always some deep, dark, childhood memory. We are making new memories all the time, and the devil never stops trying to deceive us.
I don't know where you're getting all this business about the "dark room," the "drifting mind," the "dark, hidden place," or the focussing on the lie and repeating it over and over... I've just gone through the entire training video series by Ed Smith, not to mention received the ministry myself, and none of this is accurate. "Stirring up the darkness"? That just sounds unnecessarily melodramatic, and I have never heard that phrase or even that concept in any of the Theophostic-related things I've been exposed to. If this is your concept of Theophostic, then I don't wonder that you're scared of it! Happily, though, that is not the case.
It is true that, since Theophostic is basically about healing one's emotional pain, one must concentrate on the emotions one is feeling. That is only logical, and there is nothing freaky, occultic, or New-Agey about it. All the rest of the things you mentioned I have never seen or heard of.
Originally Posted by whitedove
Originally Posted by whitedove
Good technique for inducing an altered state of consciousness. The occult ...they use angels and spirit guides and even Jesus if the, get mental and physical healing as well. Ed Smith calls for Jesus, which are truly spirit guides. Both of these methods produce the altered states of consciousness. [...]
There is nothing mind-altering about having someone pray for you to be healed. There is no altered state of consciousness. There are no angels or other spirit guides. Frequently, the person doesn't have any sort of vision of Jesus.
Originally Posted by whitedove
The one part of his being that a Christian will never surrender control of is his mind. The self control fruit of the spirit must be most diligently applied regarding the mind. We are to take every thought captive to the mind of Christ. We are to gird up our minds 1 Pet 1:13. We are to have our mind renewed by the Holy Spirit of Truth.
Having our minds renewed by the Holy Spirit and the Truth is exactly what Theophostic is all about. The Christian never surrenders control of his mind in Theophostic; I honestly don't know where you're getting that idea from. Ed Smith even says in his training video that we *are* to take every thought captive, and essentially hold it up to the Truth of Christ. That's the whole point.
Originally Posted by whitedove
What happens during Theophostic session. One, when you go back into your memory, you’re your are producing a state of Theta. Theta is an altered state. Then when you go look for Jesus in the memory, do you think it is Jesus? The counselee victim into a hypnotic trance, entice him into throwing away his ability to reason out of it, create enough feelings of evil that a Holy God would never associate with it, eliminate the possibility that God would enter by presumptuously commanding that God come when he calls, then inject a counterfeit Jesus-spirit guide to take control of the subject and induce a "high."
I am so sorry that you have experienced so much pain as to make you say things like this. There is certainly no hypnotic trance, and no "looking for Jesus." There's a flaw in your logic here -- how could one "eliminate the possibility that God would enter?" God can do anything He wants to do. The Bible tells us he wants to heal us and make us whole. There is never any command given to God (I agree, that *would* be presumptuous!) -- instead, it's simply a prayer -- no different from any other prayer of intercession. No one "commands" God to do anything. They ask. They make requests, just as the Lord tells us to in the Bible. There is no Jesus-spirit-guide, and there is never any relinquishment of control by the person receiving the ministry, and the "high" that you mentioned is not like a drug high or anything -- it's just a good feeling that naturally happens when the painful thing suddenly stops hurting. Haven't you ever gotten a bad splinter and had it hurt, and then when it comes out, you feel a lot better all of a sudden? It's the same exact principle.
Originally Posted by whitedove
Success is then proclaimed, because when the counselee comes out of it, he FEELS delivered and healed. [...]He was fooled to believe it was a Jesus when it was a spirit guide portaying a Jesus in he counselee’s memory.
I have never been in a Theophostic session where success was "proclaimed" at all. Instead, whatever "truth" received during the session is held up against scripture and tested. The conscience has not been seared -- instead, the emotional pain of believing a lie has been healed. And even when Jesus does show up in someone's mind, the things "he" says are tested against scripture at every turn, to make sure that it's not some false spirit trying to masquerade as Jesus.
Originally Posted by whitedove
The Jesus-apparition/presence encounter is the most frightening part of all of Theophostics. Theophostics can have God at your beck and call. A Jesus appearition is always available when ever you say.
Originally Posted by whitedove
As I said before, this is false and misleading. Many people don't ever get a "Jesus apparition" at all. And it's not about having God at your beck and call. It's about making requests of Him (does he not desire to give good gifts to his children when we ask) that he has already told us we have permission to make.
Originally Posted by whitedove
Doesn’t Satan heal as well? So, what spirit do you think is behind Theophostics.
As I said before: Most people I have known who go through Theophostic Prayer Ministry have become much more effective for Christ afterward. "By their fruits ye shall know them." Logically speaking, it would be counter-productive for the devil to heal people... and free them up to follow Christ more wholeheartedly and with more eager willingness to obey God's will.
Originally Posted by whitedove
Do you think you can call Jesus in your memory any time you want?
Do I think I can call upon Jesus and ask for his help any time I want? Yes. Does he always have to go into my memories in order to do it? No. But sometimes he does.
Originally Posted by whitedove
[...] Did Jesus do inner healing in the bible? Did he teach his disciples inner healing or did he send them out two by two doing repentance and deliverance? ...Do you see any examples in the bible about Theophostics?
Yes. Jesus did all kinds of healing in the Bible. He did physical healing and inner healing. Do I see the word "Theophostic" being used in the Bible? No. But do I see people healed of emotional pain by Jesus' showing them the truth? yes. All the time, and all over the place. Peter and the "feed my sheep" scenario is the classic example used by Ed Smith, but there are others as well.
Originally Posted by whitedove
[...]the devil will then attack the person in some other way. The attack will likely be in a way that is totally unrelated. ... The end may be infinitely worse off than when he started.[...]
You are right in saying that frequently when a person is healed, the devil may attack him some other way. Why? Because the devil realizes he has just lost a lot of ground and will try anything to try and get it back! It probably *will* be totally unrelated, because all the stuff that *is* related has just been given over to the Lord and there's no opening for the devil to get in there. So he has to try something else. You are implying that, because the devil tries a new trick instead of an old one, that the person is worse off than before. This is patently false.
Originally Posted by whitedove
Theophostic breakthrough is a victory for demons [...]
How could it be a breakthrough for demons, when so many of them are cast out of people during their theophostic sessions?
Originally Posted by whitedove
Sin-based theology believes that the root of my problem is my sin,” said Ed Smith. He said he has “come to realize this is a misconception and a grave error.” [...]
If a three year old girl is raped, and the rapist tells her he did it because she asked for it or deserved it... and she grows up filled with shame, thinking that she is dirty and bad... is she sinning for believing the lie? Is it a sin to believe a lie that someone tells us? It is a mistake, yes, an error, but not a moral failure. The three-year old simply doesn't know any better.
If that little girl, now a woman, lives her life filled with emotional pain, not because of a sin she committed, but because of one that was committed against her... how will repentance help her? Forgiveness will, sure, and she definitely should forgive her rapist... but her believing the lie is not a sin, and therefore has nothing to do with repentance.
Originally Posted by whitedove
If anyone can show me specifically when Jesus or the desciples did inner healing, then show it to me. I would love to see it. The Word of God is to be used as our example so that we don't fall into error. Because you are getting healing does not mean it comes from the Lord, because Satan heals too. It says it in the word.
So, if anyone wants to dispute me, then show me your dispute with scripture.
I'd be happy to, except that I doubt you would be willing to give any credence to a "theophostic" interpretation of any scripture. If you're familiar with Ed Smith's training, then you already know the examples he uses. If you do know them already, why discount them? Why ask for more, if you don't put any weight on the ones already provided?
I do believe people get healed through Theophostics because even people get healed using New Age modalities! Their healing does not come from God.
Now, tell me where inner healing of that type was in scripture? Did Jesus do inner healing or deliverance?
What did the disciples do when Jesus sent them two by two?
The Word of God is for our example of how toos. In John 1 its says the word is God....
If you read my responses earlier on, you will see I went to all the seminars and had Theophostics ministered to me as well as I did Theophostic on others for over 4 years. I have all the material. I've even gone to many seminars with Ed Smith in person teaching or demonstrated on others. I've seen the proof and seen the long term effects of Theophostics through others that I have ministered to. They didn't notice it immediately or even weeks but it was months later when my clients started having problems again because what they thought was gone was only repressed. They would trance out when they never did that before. Theophostics takes you to a hypnotic type of state.
Last but not least is Ed Smith's issue on sin.
“Sin-based theology believes that the root of my problem is my sin,” said Ed Smith. He said he has “come to realize this is a misconception and a grave error.” Once a person becomes a believer, Smith said, “the source of my sin problem is no longer in my heart since I now share the very heart of Jesus … my trouble with sin is now in my mind or lie-based thinking.” Smith calls this new insight lie-based theology. Ed M. Smith, Beyond Tolerable Recovery, 4th ed., Alathia Publishing, 2000 p. 224-225. (Emphasis in original.)
Where is lie-base theology in the bible?
If you believe that you can call the Lord off the thrown to bring healing to your memories and believe it is the Holy Spirit, wow and scarry!
I have much more documentation because I researched it out thoroughly. Even the scientific side of it.
What research have you done?
Are you just seeing the results and because it seems positive believe it is from the Lord? Give me a break! That is what the word of God is for because we are to use the word to measure if it is truth. Wow! With not checking out with the word, then people have a greater chance in falling into error and deception.
Whitedove, we're talking in circles. I've already addressed most of your points, and you've stopped making logical sense. It may well be that most of your Theophostic clients regressed because of your obvious misunderstandings--as evidenced in your posts here--of what Theophostic is all about.
I don't wish to argue any further, but I do wish you would stop maligning this ministry. If you truly and deeply believe it is not of God, and I truly and deeply believe that it is, then instead of arguing about it we should both be praying for God to show us the truth about it. If we both love the Lord, then we should not be letting a non-essential like this divide us. Instead, we should be praying about it and leaving it up to God.
Getting back to Artos: The original Theophostic website, will have some good information for you, as does Karl Lehman's website. The first one is www dot theophostic dot com, and lehman's is www dot khlehman dot com.
(sorry, I'm still too new to make external links)
From my own experience, and my husband's, and my friend's, and from what I have seen Ed Smith doing in his training videos... what usually happens in a Theophostic session is this:
There is a little bit of talking between the facilitator and the client, just to establish a starting point. Frequently it's some recent, emotional reaction that was a bit over the top. Usually the reaction was over the top because the incident triggered some past pain--and it could be from childhood, or it could be from that morning. Then the facilitator will pray for the Lord to bring to your mind the first incident--the first time you felt that way.
Usually that's when you remember the original incident. Sometimes it hurts to remember, and sometimes there are tears. Then the facilitator will pray and ask the Lord what He wants you to know about that incident, that feeling. This is where some people see a Jesus-figure (whose words are always tested against scripture to make sure it's really Him). I have never "seen Jesus" in my memories. Usually what happens with me is that I'll suddenly have a thought, a truth-- frequently a scripture verse -- and suddenly the pain is gone.
Basically, the Lord heals you by helping you realize the truth. Just as it says in scripture: "And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall set you free."
That's it. No hypnosis, no altered consciousness, nothing like that. The demons are bound by the facilitator's prayer, and the message is tested against scripture and must align with it before you're finished with the session.
And this ministry is effective. I have been healed of a large part of my life-long eating disorder (months ago, and have not regressed). My friend has been healed of her life-long bulimia (several years ago, and has not regressed). Another young man I know of has been healed of his desire to view porn (almost a year ago, and has not regressed). A woman I know was healed last week of her life-long pain from her molestation at age ten, and was delivered from a demon at the same time. Another friend was healed of her sexual dysfunction more than a year ago, and it has not only saved, but revitalized her marriage. And again--no regressions.
The Lord is still healing people today, and sometimes He uses Theophostic to do it. I think it's a worthwhile ministry, and I wish your friend the best with it.
Thanks Conteuse. How does this inner healing school differ in style from
a. the WHOLENESS THROUGH CHRIST (UK)/ VICTORIOUS LIFE MINISTRIES (USA) started by Ann White?
b. Ellel 's ministry style?
c. Neil Anderson's style of ministry?
Is this more like Ruth Carter Stapleton's (and David Seamands's) inner healing method using imagination etc?
I have been healed of a large part of my life-long eating disorder (months ago, and have not regressed). My friend has been healed of her life-long bulimia (several years ago, and has not regressed). Another young man I know of has been healed of his desire to view porn (almost a year ago, and has not regressed). A woman I know was healed last week of her life-long pain from her molestation at age ten, and was delivered from a demon at the same time. Another friend was healed of her sexual dysfunction more than a year ago, and it has not only saved, but revitalized her marriage. And again--no regressions.
This got my attention. If such difficulties can be removed, it is worth hearing. Would you kindly let me hear how they were relieved of such difficulties. Like how the sessions progressed? Thank you.
Rupert
Artos, I'm sorry--I'm not familiar enough with the ministries that you mentioned to give you an educated reply. Someone at the theophostic website would be much more likely to be able to give you the information; I'm pretty sure there is a FAQ there, and if not I know there is an email address.
Rupert, I would be glad to share what my own personal experiences have been, but would prefer to do it privately since I am so new here and don't know anyone. Would you rather PM or email?
As far as the others I mentioned, well... they are not my stories to tell, especially not the progression of the sessions because I simply don't know. However, I have asked my friend who used to be bulimic to come here and check out this thread, and if she does I am sure she'll be happy to share about her own experiences. Also the website I mentioned above, the Lehman one, has a whole bunch of testominies about how the Lord has healed people through Theophostic. Hope this helps.
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