USA to Pass Science Crown to China

Pete Harcoff · #1 26th July 2005, 09:52 PM

From Slashdot:

According to a working paper of the National Bureau of Economic Research, rapid development of a science and technology base by populous Asian countries soon may threaten the economic position of the United States. Not only is the U.S. losing ground in high technology exports, but its very capacity to develop new technologies is declining rapidly with respect to the rest of the world. According to Richard Freeman, the paper's author, the sheer population of Asian countries may allow them to train more scientists and engineers than the U.S. while devoting a smaller share of their economy to science and technology." From the article: "The phenomenal growth of China's industrial base has been widely publicized, but Freeman focuses on what is perhaps the more important long-term indicator of a nation's prosperity - its re-investment in science and technology education."

This is why I'm not worried about the effect of creationism. Even if the USA dumbs itself down, there are plenty of other countries to pick up the slack.

However, it does help emphasize what I've been saying. Creationism will never be more than a side-show attraction because of its complete lack of practical application and resulting economic benefit.

Praxiteles · #2 26th July 2005, 10:35 PM

Originally Posted by Pete Harcoff

From Slashdot:

According to a working paper of the National Bureau of Economic Research, rapid development of a science and technology base by populous Asian countries soon may threaten the economic position of the United States. Not only is the U.S. losing ground in high technology exports, but its very capacity to develop new technologies is declining rapidly with respect to the rest of the world. According to Richard Freeman, the paper's author, the sheer population of Asian countries may allow them to train more scientists and engineers than the U.S. while devoting a smaller share of their economy to science and technology." From the article: "The phenomenal growth of China's industrial base has been widely publicized, but Freeman focuses on what is perhaps the more important long-term indicator of a nation's prosperity - its re-investment in science and technology education."

This is why I'm not worried about the effect of creationism. Even if the USA dumbs itself down, there are plenty of other countries to pick up the slack.

However, it does help emphasize what I've been saying. Creationism will never be more than a side-show attraction because of its complete lack of practical application and resulting economic benefit.

Geez, I'm worried.

A theocracy with its hands on a multitude of nuclear weapons - there's enough to lose some sleep over.

billwald · #3 26th July 2005, 10:47 PM

First, there are 4 times more ChiComs than Americans.

Second, half the American scientists are (ethnic) Chinese or Japanese or Korean or . . . .

stray bullet · #4 26th July 2005, 11:35 PM

Originally Posted by Pete Harcoff

From Slashdot:

According to a working paper of the National Bureau of Economic Research, rapid development of a science and technology base by populous Asian countries soon may threaten the economic position of the United States. Not only is the U.S. losing ground in high technology exports, but its very capacity to develop new technologies is declining rapidly with respect to the rest of the world. According to Richard Freeman, the paper's author, the sheer population of Asian countries may allow them to train more scientists and engineers than the U.S. while devoting a smaller share of their economy to science and technology." From the article: "The phenomenal growth of China's industrial base has been widely publicized, but Freeman focuses on what is perhaps the more important long-term indicator of a nation's prosperity - its re-investment in science and technology education."

This is why I'm not worried about the effect of creationism. Even if the USA dumbs itself down, there are plenty of other countries to pick up the slack.

However, it does help emphasize what I've been saying. Creationism will never be more than a side-show attraction because of its complete lack of practical application and resulting economic benefit.

Sort of like how the Soviet Union will dominate space and Japan will dominate the world economy?

Now you have astrophysicists selling shoes on the streets to keep their families from starving to death and Japan has a 10% unemployment rate with businessmen committing suicide right and left.

I'm not worried about China. Their economic system is too much of a tangled mess, mostly because of socialism, to be much of a threat to the world economy in the future.

You can have all the education you want, but unless you have the appopriate environment for growth (free market), it'll come crashing down. The presence of creationism in the US really shouldnt' have any effect.

stray bullet · #5 26th July 2005, 11:39 PM

Originally Posted by billwald

First, there are 4 times more ChiComs than Americans.

Second, half the American scientists are (ethnic) Chinese or Japanese or Korean or . . . .

Well, that's not really true. However, do you know why the US has so many scientists from the former Soviet Union, Asia and even Europe? We have the best environment for them to work in, creationists and all.

Jet Black · #6 27th July 2005, 01:56 AM

gosh, americans talking about politics *shudder*

Jet Black · #7 27th July 2005, 01:57 AM

Originally Posted by stray bullet

Well, that's not really true. However, do you know why the US has so many scientists from the former Soviet Union, Asia and even Europe? We have the best environment for them to work in, creationists and all.

well the main reason is money. as China gets richer, more will stay there.

stray bullet · #8 27th July 2005, 02:11 AM

Originally Posted by Jet Black

well the main reason is money. as China gets richer, more will stay there.

Japan has plenty of money, as does Europe, yet that doesn't stop their scientists from migrating to the US. I live in the midwest of the US, so it's not really 'ethnic', but at the research labs I work in or visit, there are a great deal of scientists from wealthy nations.

Why do I see so many Europeans, Japanese and Russians? Because their countries economic and research structures are poorly done. Unless Europe, Japan, etc make painful and unpopular moves towards free markets, their scientists will continue to migrate to the US.

China is advancing, but this is the same country that only decades ago, was losing tens of millions of people by starvation. Per capita they are still have a fraction of the wealth and resources of peope in western nations, the party isn't going to just go on and on. China is going to soon face a world they have limited influence in, less cheap/slave labor to offer and an socialistic economic environment that will bring employment to a screaching halt.

In relation to creationism and evolution, it doesn't matter if Americans continue to have a belief in creationism that other countries don't find attractive. Our commitment to using the government to protect our rights, not punish success, will continue to drive the nation in discovery and innovation in the twenty-first century, while other countries struggle with crippled economies due to short-sighted labor policies. At least England got out the severe "nanny state" side of it.

nvxplorer · #9 27th July 2005, 02:29 AM

Originally Posted by stray bullet

Unless Europe, Japan, etc make painful and unpopular moves towards free markets, their scientists will continue to migrate to the US.

Is this a joke?

The US had a trade deficit of $666 billion in 2004.

Japan: $75 billion deficit
Western Europe: $114 billion deficit

http://www.epi.org/content.cfm/webfe...depict20050210

What about those free markets?

A4C · #10 27th July 2005, 02:29 AM

Perhaps secular western countries have spent too much of the scientific finances pie trying to find non existant "transitionals" or "voices in space" and other such meaningless goals, whilst China has appreciated the true meaning of "Science"