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17th July 2005, 01:55 PM
| | Junior Member
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Let's take this situation for an example...
Let's say this man discovers Christ through a life of hardship. He's a very intelligent man who is often a skeptic. Well he finds Christ and dedicates his life to him for 10 years. He was saved. Until he comes across to someone to feed him lies about how there is no evidence for Christ. His skeptic nature kicks in and he walks away from Christ because of this evidence.
He was saved from the heart. It says once you are saved you are pre-destined and you cannot be taken away from him.
So if this gentlemen is a full blown athiest now, is he still secured in heaven?
"And let's say in another situation someone was saved and 10 years later they live a life of sin."
What will happen? |
17th July 2005, 04:23 PM
|  | Contributor
  
| | Join Date: 12th August 2004 Location: east coast
Posts: 6,136
Blessings: 108,733
Reps: 18,126 (power: 33) | | | My view on this tends to be a bit different from some on this forum. I personally believed that once you are truly saved, that is it, you are saved. I have a family member who was 'saved' in a word of faith church. She spoke in tongues, got herself slain in the ol' Spirit when she could, so on and so forth. She is now living with her boyfriend, doesn't go to church anymore and 'religion' is no longer a part of her life. This perplexes some in my family. I just don't feel she ever became saved in the first place. I think she had a pseudo-salvation and never really understood true salvation and a true relationship with God. Sure, she lived a 'good' life by her definition, went to church, had all these signs and gifts from 'god' and she would have adamently told you then she was saved. That was her 'salvation' and not from God.
Having been hijacked into false beliefs and teachings, I think this is very common. If you are truly walking with God, you won't desert Him and He certainly will not desert you.
The analogy I always use is that you can go sit your little self in a henhouse all day. Cluck til your little heart is content, peck and scratch at the soil. Hey you can even consume some bugs if that is your heart's delight but that doesn't make you poultry. That's all superficial stuff. What matters is what is internal.
God bless.
__________________ "A successful marriage requires falling in love many times, always with the same person."
Hebrews 13:2 "Do not forget to entertain strangers, for by so doing some people have entertained angels without knowing it."
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17th July 2005, 05:19 PM
| | Junior Member
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| | Join Date: 7th November 2004 Location: Florida
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Reps: 75 (power: 0) | | | Word that's what I was thinking and you just really clearified it all.. thanks alot sister. |
17th July 2005, 05:30 PM
| | Regular Member
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| | Join Date: 31st December 2004
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Blessings: 107,495
Reps: 2,757,354,014 (power: 2,757,363) | | Originally Posted by WhyAjani Let's take this situation for an example...
Let's say this man discovers Christ through a life of hardship. He's a very intelligent man who is often a skeptic. Well he finds Christ and dedicates his life to him for 10 years. He was saved. Until he comes across to someone to feed him lies about how there is no evidence for Christ. His skeptic nature kicks in and he walks away from Christ because of this evidence.
He was saved from the heart. It says once you are saved you are pre-destined and you cannot be taken away from him.
So if this gentlemen is a full blown athiest now, is he still secured in heaven?
"And let's say in another situation someone was saved and 10 years later they live a life of sin."
What will happen?
I submit to you the following scriptures to consider:
1. Luke 15 "Lost Sheep" "Lost Coin" "Lost Boy" "Older Brother" Considering the "lost sheep" Jesus said, "Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep." Then there is a lot of "rejoicing." Why??
2. James 5:19 This verse addresses "brothers." We are told if he "wanders from the truth, and is brought back, a soul has been saved from death.
3. 2 Peter 2:20-22 Here are some who have "escaped the pollutions of the world through Jesus Christ, but are again entangled therein." Because they are overcome "they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning."
Scripture does teach that a person can be saved and so sin as to lose their soul. God says, "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you - unless, of course, you fail the test." (2 Cor. 13:5)
Last edited by Jim Woodell; 17th July 2005 at 05:54 PM.
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17th July 2005, 05:37 PM
| | Until the end, I SHALL FIGHT!
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 | | Join Date: 17th July 2005
Posts: 664
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Reps: 199 (power: 0) | | | I can't give a personal opinion from my experiences. The Bible does say that "I will never leave you nor forsake you." but I don't know if you can leave Him.
I'll leave this answer in the hands of someone else. |
17th July 2005, 05:57 PM
| | Regular Member
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Reps: 2,757,354,014 (power: 2,757,363) | | Originally Posted by HolyFire X I can't give a personal opinion from my experiences. The Bible does say that "I will never leave you nor forsake you." but I don't know if you can leave Him.
I'll leave this answer in the hands of someone else.
The lost sheep of Luke 15:1ff "wandered off." God does not forsake us, but we can forsake him. |
17th July 2005, 06:27 PM
|  | fundamentally liberal
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| | Join Date: 24th December 2003
Posts: 8,314
Blessings: 77,704
Reps: 115,113,221,087,288,640 (power: 115,113,221,087,306) | | | For me, it boils down to being a child of God, born again as we call it.
If there's a way to remove oneself from salvation, I guess it must be through actually know who Jesus is, and willingly reject his offer of salvation.
There was a time in my life when I rejected my father, but I was still his flesh and blood. I couldn't somehow fail or sin so badly as to become somebody else's son.
It's a good thing salvation doesn't depend on my works or intellect (or on me in general). |
17th July 2005, 07:15 PM
|  | Senior Veteran
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| | Join Date: 9th June 2004 Location: Deep South
Posts: 4,894
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Reps: 13,139 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by holo For me, it boils down to being a child of God, born again as we call it.
If there's a way to remove oneself from salvation, I guess it must be through actually know who Jesus is, and willingly reject his offer of salvation.
There was a time in my life when I rejected my father, but I was still his flesh and blood. I couldn't somehow fail or sin so badly as to become somebody else's son.
It's a good thing salvation doesn't depend on my works or intellect (or on me in general).
If a person has saved themselves, then and only then, they are entirely free to unsave themselves.
Which is one and the same thing isn't it?
Asaph |
17th July 2005, 11:17 PM
|  | Senior Veteran
 
| | Join Date: 23rd September 2004 Location: Overland Park, KS.
Posts: 3,828
Blessings: 96,995 My Mood 
Reps: 96,327,666 (power: 96,339) | | Originally Posted by Jim Woodell I submit to you the following scriptures to consider:
1. Luke 15 "Lost Sheep" "Lost Coin" "Lost Boy" "Older Brother" Considering the "lost sheep" Jesus said, "Rejoice with me; I have found my lost sheep." Then there is a lot of "rejoicing." Why??
2. James 5:19 This verse addresses "brothers." We are told if he "wanders from the truth, and is brought back, a soul has been saved from death.
3. 2 Peter 2:20-22 Here are some who have "escaped the pollutions of the world through Jesus Christ, but are again entangled therein." Because they are overcome "they are worse off at the end than they were at the beginning."
Scripture does teach that a person can be saved and so sin as to lose their soul. God says, "Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you - unless, of course, you fail the test." (2 Cor. 13:5)
Upon first glance James 5:19-20 would appear to be saying that a Christian that happens to 'stray' from the truth will result in the death of his/her soul. Further study reveals that James is using a verse from the Old Testament as emphasis. James is referring to a non-Christian being 'turned' to the truth will result in the saving of their soul from death. This is to encourage Christians not to stray and if they should, that it is important for them to be brought back.
2Pet.2 is clearly describing unconverted teachers.....'A dog returns to it's own vomit' and 'A sow after being washed, returns to wallowing in the mire.' (2Pet.2:22)
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"No one ever turns against logic, until logic turns against them"
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17th July 2005, 11:35 PM
| | Veteran
| | Join Date: 19th September 2004
Posts: 1,700
Blessings: 75,413 My Mood 
Reps: 10,809,390,223 (power: 10,809,400) | | | Hebrews 6:4-6
4 It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit,
5 who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age,
6 if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
(NIV)
1 Corinthians 10:12
12 So, if you think you are standing firm, be careful that you don't fall!
(NIV)
1 Timothy 3:6
6 He must not be a recent convert, or he may become conceited and fall under the same judgment as the devil.
(NIV)
Hebrews 4:11
11 Let us, therefore, make every effort to enter that rest, so that no one will fall by following their example of disobedience.
(NIV)
__________________
Luke 24:46-47 "He told them, "This is what is written: The Christ will suffer and rise from the dead on the third day, and repentance and forgiveness of sins will be preached in his name to all nations ..."
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