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21st July 2005, 02:31 PM
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Reps: 24 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by LittleNipper What color was the T-Rex?
What color were the apples or the snake in the Garden of Eden? |
21st July 2005, 02:56 PM
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| | Join Date: 2nd March 2004 Location: Toronto
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Reps: 15,520,757,636,276,026 (power: 15,520,757,636,298) | | Originally Posted by LittleNipper Neither geology nor history falsify The Global Flood.
Yes they do. Every ancient culture has a CATASTROPHIC flood epic.
No they don't. IIRC the ancient Egyptians had no flood epic. There are almost as many cultures without a flood epic as with. This would count as historic proof for the Flood.
No it wouldn't. Geology tell us that fossils were mostly created by water and mud and was an extremely fast process in many cases.
Fossilization is generally a slow process. Burial (needed to preserve bones) is what is often rapid. But not necessarily instantaneous. Many fossils show evidence of having been gnawed on by scavengers before the bones were buried and fossilized.
Fossils are found in mudslides, and near water, but in many cases the fossil site indicates the conditions in which the animal died were not flood conditions. The geologic age of the sediment and minerals is all we have to date fossils found in them. The problem with this logis is that the meat and mashed potatoes are usually not as old as the dish on which they are discovered...
And that is why paleontologists expect fossils to be younger than the strata they are lying on top of. By the same token they will be older than a rock which formed above them. Date the rocks above and below the fossil and you have set a date range for the fossil.
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21st July 2005, 03:08 PM
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Reps: 15,520,757,636,276,026 (power: 15,520,757,636,298) | | Originally Posted by LittleNipper Genetic bottlenecks do not take into account a very long lifespan. 
Genetic bottlenecks are an indication of reduced population size. Longevity has nothing to do with it. Noah constructed essentually a large floating box out of an unknown species of wood (gopher). We do not know how tall that "tree" grew. We do not know why it is called gopher wood. gopher wood
Mentioned in the Bible, as the material out of which Noe's ark was made (Genesis 6). Translators either have not attempted to give an equivalent, or have with early Jewish interpreters read a slightly different word (Vulgate: "LlBvigatis" ; D.V.: "timber planks"). Commentators as early as Saint Ambrose and Saint Augustine noticed, after Celsius, the close resemblance of the words gopher and kopher (pitch, hence any pitch-exuding tree, especially cypress), and were of the opinion that a tree of the pine or cypress family might be intended. The suitableness of its wood for shipbuilding, known from very early ages, is a further argument in favor of this view.
http://www.catholic-forum.com/saints/ncd03661.htm
New Catholic Dictionary
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"Either we've got to pretend that Jesus was just as selfish as we are, or we've got to acknowledge that He commanded us to love the poor and serve the needy - and then admit that we just don't wanna do it." Steve Colbert |
21st July 2005, 03:18 PM
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Reps: 18,563,956,112,384,120 (power: 18,563,956,112,402) | | Originally Posted by gluadys Yes they do.
No they don't. IIRC the ancient Egyptians had no flood epic. There are almost as many cultures without a flood epic as with.
No it wouldn't.
Fossilization is generally a slow process. Burial (needed to preserve bones) is what is often rapid. But not necessarily instantaneous. Many fossils show evidence of having been gnawed on by scavengers before the bones were buried and fossilized.
Fossils are found in mudslides, and near water, but in many cases the fossil site indicates the conditions in which the animal died were not flood conditions.
And that is why paleontologists expect fossils to be younger than the strata they are lying on top of. By the same token they will be older than a rock which formed above them. Date the rocks above and below the fossil and you have set a date range for the fossil.
Actuall the Egyptians do have a Flood epic; however, the Egyptian Flood epic is intertwined with their gods as is their ruler history. One of their gods rode in a chest. Every major culture has a Flood epic. If you are speaking of insects in amber, I agree with you; however, the amber was hardened and great weight involving volumes of water pressure rather then millions of years would work just as well.
Last edited by LittleNipper; 21st July 2005 at 03:42 PM.
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21st July 2005, 03:30 PM
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Reps: 12,098,800,393,032 (power: 12,098,800,411) | | Originally Posted by LittleNipper Actuall the Egyptians do have a Flood epic.
This Egyptian flood myth does not resemble the one in Genesis: Ra was warned by the Watery Abyss that humans had grown too rebellious, so he took Hathor and ordered her to punish the people.
Hathor went to earth and slew millions of humans. The streets of the town of Chetenuten began to run like a river with blood because of her horrific endeavour. So much blood drained into the Nile that it overflowed the riverbanks, and the bloody water flooded the land, destroying everything. This water eventually ran into the sea, which overflowed as well. Hathor began drinking this horrible mixture of blood and water.
Ra was displeased with Hathor's work, as he had only wanted to punish, and not destroy, the human race. So he asked Thoth, the wisest God, for help. He then told the Goddess Sektet to mix together dada, fruit and barley to make beer. The beer was then to be mixed with human blood, in the hopes that it would attract Hathor.
Ra's servents were then ordered to pour out the mixture on the remaining land near Hathor. The beer became a great sea, and Hathor was drawn to it by the smell of the blood. She drank the beer until she was so intoxicated that she staggered off to sleep, leaving the last few humans behind.
From those humans, earth was repopulated. Ra left the upkeep of earth to Thoth from then on, and he went off to rest on the back of the great cow of heaven. Thoth taught humans how to be civilized.
Neither does this Algonquin tradition: One day, the god Michabo was out hunting with his pack of wolves, when he noticed that his wolves went into the lake and didn't come back out. He went in to fetch them out, and the world flooded as he did so. Michabo sent a raven looking for soil to make a new earth from, but the bird couldn't find any, and an otter sent out on the same quest produced no results either.
Michabo then sent a muskrat and she came back with enough soil to create a new earth. Michabo was pleased, and the two married and became the parents of humans.
If you're going to use other cultures' myths as evidence for a literal Noahic flood, you have many questions that need to be answered. The foremost of these would be; since Noah and family were the only to be spared, these other myths could not claim to have their people spared.  |
21st July 2005, 03:31 PM
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21st July 2005, 03:38 PM
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Reps: 12,098,800,393,032 (power: 12,098,800,411) | | | Hey LittleNipper,
If all the Egyptians were wiped out in the flood, how could they have wriiten a flood myth? |
21st July 2005, 03:42 PM
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 | | Join Date: 21st September 2002 Location: United States
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Reps: 295,212,687,427,838,720 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by LittleNipper Humanism is a man centered view of life. It excludes the possiblity of both a god or any creator. With evolution, it always comes down to what did MAN's ancestors develope from and how did they develope. It is very much in keeping with HUMANISM.
Actually, it excludes the possibility that God or any creator tossed the laws of physics out the window to satisfy Creationist whims. Neither geology nor history falsify The Global Flood. Every ancient culture has a CATASTROPHIC flood epic. They all have humanity being saved by the building of a boat of some sort by one man or family, and the Flood is always the result a displeased god of one form or another. This would count as historic proof for the Flood.
It would, if not for the fact that every ancient civilization shared a habit of comingling history and mythology. Geology tell us that fossils were mostly created by water and mud and was an extremely fast process in many cases.
Actually fossilization is a slow process. It also tells us that this sort of thing doesn't seem to occur very often if ever.
Fossilizaton is rare, but obviously it does occur. Geology also informs us that everything that is was once different. Panta Rei. Everything Changes. The geologic age of the sediment and minerals is all we have to date fossils found in them. The problem with this logis is that the meat and mashed potatoes are usually not as old as the dish on which they are discovered...
So the fossils were placed after the fact? Buried there and then covered up? |
21st July 2005, 03:45 PM
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Reps: 18,563,956,112,384,120 (power: 18,563,956,112,402) | | Originally Posted by nvxplorer Hey LittleNipper,
If all the Egyptians were wiped out in the flood, how could they have wriiten a flood myth?
There were no "Egyptians" until after the fall of the Tower of Babel... There was but one people because everyone shared the same language. |
21st July 2005, 04:04 PM
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Reps: 12,098,800,393,032 (power: 12,098,800,411) | | Originally Posted by LittleNipper There were no "Egyptians" until after the fall of the Tower of Babel... There was but one people because everyone shared the same language.
Stop tap-dancing and answer my question.
The Egyptian flood myth was written by Egyptians. They are Egyptian because they lived in Egypt; the language spoken is irrelevant. (Hmmm...I must not be an American because people in England speak the same language. Interesting logic.)
The Egyptian myth and the Hebrew myth cannot both be literally correct. The Egyptian myth, by your "logic," must have occurred after the Tower of Babel, which is post-Noahic flood. The Egyptian myth has Egyptians repopulating the world; the Hebrew myth has Noah and family repopulating the world. Which is it?
If the Egyptian flood myth is false, why are you using it as evidence of the global flood?
Where is the boat in the Egyptian myth? You stated all myths mention a boat. Perhaps you should retract that statement.
Last edited by nvxplorer; 21st July 2005 at 04:12 PM.
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