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  #1  
Unread 14th July 2005, 12:16 PM
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Pact of Metz - Ostpolitik

I've read that in order not to offend the Orthodox in Communist countries, Pope John XXIII consented, through the Pact of Metz, to a policy that became known as Ostpolitik, which ensured that Vatican II would not confront the realities of Communism.

In exchange, Vatican II got two Russian Orthodox observers to attend the Council...not sure why they would want such attendees.

Why would the Church make such a strange alliance and refuse to condemn communism? Was it for the sake of ecumenism?

Does anyone have any information?
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  #2  
Unread 14th July 2005, 12:18 PM
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In late spring of 1962, a certain Eugene Cardinal Tisserant had been dispatched by Pope John XXIII to meet with a Russian prelate, one Metropolitan Nikodim, representing the Soviet Politburo of Premier Nikita Khrushchev. Pope John ardently desired to know if the Soviet Government would allow two members of the Russian Orthodox Church to attend the Second Vatican Council set to open the following October. The meeting between Tisserant and Nikodim took place in the official residence of Paul Joseph Schmitt, then the bishop of Metz, France. There, Nikodim gave the Soviet answer. His government would agree, provided the Pope would guarantee two things: that his forthcoming Council would issue no condemnation of Soviet Communism or of Marxism, and that the Holy See would make it a rule for the future to abstain from all such official condemnation.


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  #3  
Unread 14th July 2005, 12:23 PM
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Originally Posted by plainswolf
In late spring of 1962, a certain Eugene Cardinal Tisserant had been dispatched by Pope John XXIII to meet with a Russian prelate, one Metropolitan Nikodim, representing the Soviet Politburo of Premier Nikita Khrushchev. Pope John ardently desired to know if the Soviet Government would allow two members of the Russian Orthodox Church to attend the Second Vatican Council set to open the following October. The meeting between Tisserant and Nikodim took place in the official residence of Paul Joseph Schmitt, then the bishop of Metz, France. There, Nikodim gave the Soviet answer. His government would agree, provided the Pope would guarantee two things: that his forthcoming Council would issue no condemnation of Soviet Communism or of Marxism, and that the Holy See would make it a rule for the future to abstain from all such official condemnation.


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That is interesting...what role does that have in JP2's consecration of Russia which didn't actually mention Russia by name?
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  #4  
Unread 14th July 2005, 12:27 PM
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Some think it plays a HUGE role, in any case it would explain alot concerning refraining from mentioning Russia..
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Unread 14th July 2005, 12:34 PM
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Originally Posted by plainswolf
Some think it plays a HUGE role, in any case it would explain alot concerning refraining from mentioning Russia..
That's kind of freaky considering the consecration was supposed to fufill two conditions:

1. That Russia be specifically named...not "the world" as past consecrations had also done, and were rejected.

2. That all Bishops of the world would be united in the Consecration.

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Unread 14th July 2005, 01:37 PM
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this subject of the consecration of russia just makes my whole body tired.
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Unread 14th July 2005, 01:51 PM
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Originally Posted by plainswolf
In late spring of 1962, a certain Eugene Cardinal Tisserant had been dispatched by Pope John XXIII to meet with a Russian prelate, one Metropolitan Nikodim, representing the Soviet Politburo of Premier Nikita Khrushchev. Pope John ardently desired to know if the Soviet Government would allow two members of the Russian Orthodox Church to attend the Second Vatican Council set to open the following October. The meeting between Tisserant and Nikodim took place in the official residence of Paul Joseph Schmitt, then the bishop of Metz, France. There, Nikodim gave the Soviet answer. His government would agree, provided the Pope would guarantee two things: that his forthcoming Council would issue no condemnation of Soviet Communism or of Marxism, and that the Holy See would make it a rule for the future to abstain from all such official condemnation.


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Could you provide a citation for this?
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Unread 14th July 2005, 02:45 PM
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All the details of time and place were given at a press conference by Msgr. Schmitt, the Bishop of that Diocese [newspaper Le Lorrain, 2/9/63]. The negotiations ended in an agreement signed by Metropolitan Nikodim for the Orthodox Church and Cardinal Tisserant, the Dean of the Sacred College of Cardinals, for the Holy See.
News of the agreement[vatican-moscow agreement] was given in the France nouvelle, the central bulletin of the French Communist Party in the edition of January 16-22, 1963, in these terms: ‘Because the world socialist system is showing its superiority in an incontestable fashion, and is strong through the support of hundreds and hundreds of millions of men, the Church can no longer be content with a crude anti-Communism. As part of its dialogue with the Russian Orthodox Church, it has even promised there will be no direct attack on the Communist system at the Council.’ On the Catholic side, the daily La Croix of February 15, 1963, gave notice of the agreement, concluding: ‘As a consequence of this conversation, Msgr. Nikodim agreed that someone should go to Moscow carrying an invitation, on condition that guarantees were given concerning the apolitical attitude of the Council.

The Metz pact is also chronicled in the book by Ulysses Floridi, Moscou et le Vatican, Paris: France-Empire, Paris, 1979, pp. 147-48;

Seems like there are a few books on the subject.. another one from this source


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Last edited by plainswolf; 14th July 2005 at 02:51 PM.
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Unread 14th July 2005, 03:58 PM
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This is a sad story. As far as I am concerned the role of an ecumenical council is to address the greatest and most immediate dangers to the faith and equip the faithful against them. The greatest threat to Catholicism at the time was Communism and we bartered away our right to defend against it for some ecumenical porridge.

I believe if Vatican II had addressed Communism, consecrated Russia, and defined our Lady's role as mediatrix and advocate of Christians we would really by able to talk about a 'New Springtime' today.
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Unread 15th July 2005, 05:44 AM
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Originally Posted by geocajun
this subject of the consecration of russia just makes my whole body tired.
I know...but Russia hasn't really converted, has it? I mean, communism fell, which was huge, but look at the abortion rates in Russia, they are way high. They broadcast XXX shows on daytime television in Russia.
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