Non-verbal Forgiveness of Sins

MizDoulos · #1 13th July 2002, 03:10 PM

There are two camps of thought regarding the forgiveness of sin. One camp believes that forgiveness of others can only be given when the one committing the sin asks for forgiveness. (See Matt. 18:21-27)

However, those in the other camp believe that forgiveness should be given even though the sinner did not ask for forgiveness. They believe it is not necessary. Besides, they feel it is better for the psychological and emotional well-being.

Which do you believe is biblical? And which camp do you place yourself?

LouisBooth · #2 15th July 2002, 09:14 PM

Well we are to forgive all sins regardless...If not then sucide is yet another unforgiveable sin..right?

MizDoulos · #3 16th July 2002, 04:10 AM

Originally posted by LouisBooth
Well we are to forgive all sins regardless...If not then sucide is yet another unforgiveable sin..right?

This would be between God and the person committing suicide, if I understand you correctly. I was thinking more on the lines of one person's transgressions against another person. Of course, any sin is committed against God and only against Him. (Ps. 51:4)

Did I read you correctly? If not, please do explain.

ZiSunka · #4 19th July 2002, 01:45 PM

There are two kinds of forgiveness: restoration forgiveness and salvage forgiveness.

In restoration forgiveness, the goal is to restore the broken relationship, so the forgiveness is expressed and acknowledged by both parties. It is by this that they can begin to communicate, love and move on again. An example would be a son who broke a window on his father's car. They meet to offer and accept forgiveness so that the relationship can be restored without reserve.

In salvage forgiveness, one or both parties recognize that either no relationship ever existed, or it is impossible to restore, the harm is too deep. The object is for the injured party to be able to let go of the harm by forgiving the one who sinned against him. An example of this would be a woman forgiving her rapist. No restoration of relationship is possible or desired. No meeting, no offer of forgiveness or acceptance of it is necessary. She determines to no longer be held captive by his sin, and she forgives as the means of letting go of her right to continue to hate him.

So, restoration forgiveness requires acknowledgement, but salvage forgiveness doesn't.

MizDoulos · #5 19th July 2002, 02:39 PM

Originally posted by lambslove
There are two kinds of forgiveness: restoration forgiveness and salvage forgiveness.

In restoration forgiveness, the goal is to restore the broken relationship, so the forgiveness is expressed and acknowledged by both parties. It is by this that they can begin to communicate, love and move on again. An example would be a son who broke a window on his father's car. They meet to offer and accept forgiveness so that the relationship can be restored without reserve.

In salvage forgiveness, one or both parties recognize that either no relationship ever existed, or it is impossible to restore, the harm is too deep. The object is for the injured party to be able to let go of the harm by forgiving the one who sinned against him. An example of this would be a woman forgiving her rapist. No restoration of relationship is possible or desired. No meeting, no offer of forgiveness or acceptance of it is necessary. She determines to no longer be held captive by his sin, and she forgives as the means of letting go of her right to continue to hate him.

So, restoration forgiveness requires acknowledgement, but salvage forgiveness doesn't.

This is similar to the differences between the two camps stated above.

What would be interesting is to find out where Christians place themselves regarding this topic, and do they feel that non-verbal forgiveness is biblical, not just for psychological or emotional benefit.

Appreciate your input, lambslove.

prodigal · #6 19th July 2002, 03:39 PM

I, for one, am not going to wait for someone to apologise before I forgive them. Jesus says "For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavvenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins." Matthew 6:14, 15

prodigal · #7 19th July 2002, 04:21 PM

We forgive others, whether they ask or not, because God has commanded us to. If we forgive, then we are forgiven.

Do not forget the rest of the parable you were referring to MizD. "Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. This is how myh heavenly father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from yhour heart." Matthew 18:32-35

ZiSunka · #8 19th July 2002, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by MizDoulos

This is similar to the differences between the two camps stated above.

What would be interesting is to find out where Christians place themselves regarding this topic, and do they feel that non-verbal forgiveness is biblical, not just for psychological or emotional benefit.

Appreciate your input, lambslove.

I think you might have mistunderstood me.  I'm not describing two camps or schools of thought, I am describing two "forgivenesses."  Both are valid and necessary under different circumstances.

There are times when a face-to-face forgiveness would be harmful.  There are times when facte-to-face forgiveness is essential.  You can't eliminate one type or the other.  They have different goals but the same result.

Christians don't have to choose between one or the other.  They get to use both. 

Take two examples.  Jacob and  Esau and Joseph and his brothers.

Jacob wanted to go home, but to do so, he would have to be able to live in peace with Esau, the brother he had cheated out of his birthright.  They ended up having a verbal forgiveness, and the relationshipw as restored because of it.  This was restoration forgiveness.

Joseph on the other hand, was far away from his brothers when he forgave them, long before they showed up in Egypt for food.  He had already forgiven their cruelty to him, and when he saw them for the first time in Egypt, he loved them with the love of a brother, not the hatred of an enemy.  This was salvage forgiveness.  He forgave them not because they deserved it or because he wanted to be with them, but because it gave him the peace to move on with life and be successful, not eaten up with bitterness.

Both styles are Biblical.

And please watch your condescending words.  They are hurtful.

 

MizDoulos · #9 21st July 2002, 05:06 AM

Originally posted by lambslove

I think you might have mistunderstood me.  I'm not describing two camps or schools of thought, I am describing two "forgivenesses."  Both are valid and necessary under different circumstances.

There are times when a face-to-face forgiveness would be harmful.  There are times when facte-to-face forgiveness is essential.  You can't eliminate one type or the other.  They have different goals but the same result.

Christians don't have to choose between one or the other.  They get to use both. 

Take two examples.  Jacob and  Esau and Joseph and his brothers.

Jacob wanted to go home, but to do so, he would have to be able to live in peace with Esau, the brother he had cheated out of his birthright.  They ended up having a verbal forgiveness, and the relationshipw as restored because of it.  This was restoration forgiveness.

Joseph on the other hand, was far away from his brothers when he forgave them, long before they showed up in Egypt for food.  He had already forgiven their cruelty to him, and when he saw them for the first time in Egypt, he loved them with the love of a brother, not the hatred of an enemy.  This was salvage forgiveness.  He forgave them not because they deserved it or because he wanted to be with them, but because it gave him the peace to move on with life and be successful, not eaten up with bitterness.

Both styles are Biblical.

And please watch your condescending words.  They are hurtful.

 

Lambslove, I apologize if I hurt your feelings. I wasn't trying to be condescending at all. Am sorry you took it that way. I felt you were basically saying the same thing but in your own words. That's perfectly fine. And your examples were good ones to back your views.

If you have any further personal comments, please use your private message option to contact me.

Many Christians don't wait until forgiveness is asked before they forgive. I agree with them. If a person doesn't forgive others, bitterness and hatred develops which takes a toll on the psyche and emotions. I can understand that. Forgiving others brings peace to the soul.

There are many different points on both sides and I thought it would be interesting to hear all thoughts and views.

I do appreciate your viewpoint, lambslove. That's what helps to make the discussion interesting.

ZoneChaos · #10 22nd July 2002, 09:58 AM

We to forgive others, as God forgives us: totally, uninimously and without reservation.  You may ask, But doesn't God only forgive after we do this or do that? After we repent, etc...?

God promises us forgiveness, if we will have it, and it is like this that we forgive others.  Forgiveness is a two way street, like anything else.  We can't force our forgiveness on anyone, but at the same time, we must forgive everyone, but it is up to them to accept it.  Part of that acceptance is a willingness to repent, not to us, but to God.

We must have an attituide of repentance to everyone, but true forgiveness is only by the Grace of God.

The world, without God, ha sa repentance, but it is a false one.  SOmeone who comes up to you and says he is sorry, but has not truly repented to God, cannot be forgiven by us, becasue he cannot be forgiven by God.  We can have a mind of forgiveness to them, but they must be sincere in their repentance.  The Biuble tells of a true and false repentance, one of God, and one of the world:

"For the sorrow that is according to the will of God produces a repentance without regret, leading to salvation; but the sorrow of the world produces death".  2 Cor. 7:10

The second is meaningless, because it is not sincere in the eyes of God, and forgiveness is not given to them.

Luke tells us that repentance is necessary in order to recieve forgiveness. As a Christians, we must extend our willingness to forgive to everyone, without thought to who they are, etc..  but the forgiveness we offer from ourselves, is like that of the forgiveness offered by God:  It cannot be recieved by the person being forgiven, unless they are sincere in their repentance to God, and to us, as God as a witnes, becasue only through God can true forgiveness come.