Another Question

I found this posted in a thread called "Do you believe in pre-fall imortality?" At the time it was in Apologetics, but has since been moved. It was posted by Late_Cretaceous.

Is this official Catholic Doctrine?

Honestly, I'm not entirely sure what official Church teaching is on this topic, but I do know that many people take many of the things in Genesis symbolically and not as pure fact.  I think one of the reasons for this is that some of the things in the book of Genesis seem to contradict each other (the two creation stories). 

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I think the Church doctrine is "this is not a question on which the Church has an official position".

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Save me / And when you see me strut / Remind me of what left this outlaw torn
I follow Christ; therefore I am
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. I affirm the Nicene Creed.
For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. -- Romans 8:38-39

Father William J. O'Malley had this to say in the book The People's Catechism: Catholic Faith for Adults.

But seebs is right. The Catholic Church doesn't take a stand one way or the other as to the literal translation of certain texts, for example, the Creation Story. You are free to take it as a literal rendering, or a symbolic acount. In either event, though, it must be affirmed that God created everything from his own power, and that we as a race descended from Adam and Eve.

At any rate, Fr. O'Malley's feelings expressed above are probably very similar to those that the person you quoted were taught.

Neal

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Let us, therefore, forget for a while the technical discussions about the Church, its mission, its methods. Not that these discussions are wrong or unnecessary—but they can be useful and meaningful only within a fundamental context, and that context is the “great joy” from which everything else in Christianity developed and acquired its meaning."

---Fr. Alexander Schmemann, “For the Life of the World.”

Interesting! Thanks for these answers, all of you. Many people consider Genesis a mythological book in both senses of the term. But it is good to know for sure the Catholic stance on this subject.

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"Weeping may endure for a night, but joy cometh in the morning." (Psalms 30:5)



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To Gerry:

I get beaten up regularly by the literalists when I say that parts of the Old Testament are myths. People think I'm saying "parts of the Old Testament are fairy tales."

<sigh>

The Creation stories are myths. Noah is a myth. (C'mon, a boat big enough to hold EVERY animal? Two of some kinds, seven of others? And why did he have to bring mosquitos, huh?) Some scholars think even Job is part myth.

Calling those stories "myths" does not take away anything from faith. Those stories DO show the involvement of God in the lives of mortals, and they also explain the developing relationship God has had with mankind.

You just have to be careful how you say it to some people.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

Part of what allows the Catholic church to take that position is the added authority of scripture and the "holy spirit directed canon". With those as additional support, it's no longer all that important who wrote a particular book of the Bible, or whether a certain story is literally true or symbolic. IMO, I guess.

-Chris

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"But God commendeth his love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Christ died for us." (Rom 5:8)
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Indeed! Job reads very much like a play contrasting three different philosophies of the time... plus God! It's what you woulda gotten if you'd taken an existing play on the issue, and added God to it.

As to Noah, I'll point out that, in one place, it says two of everything, no exceptions, and in another, it says two of everything unclean, and seven of everything clean.

The stories that come from that are, to my rationalist mind, hilarious. If there were a single apatosaurous on the boat, the boat woulda been crushed.

I can't imagine believing the story of Noah to be literal truth; I would pretty much have to abandon every field of science I believe in, or assert that God is an outright liar who delights in tricking us.

Speaking with some authority as a Presbyter in the Primitive Episcopal Church, I can tell you that we believe in a literal, seven day creation. We believe that there was no death before the sin of Adam. If there was, than God is much more than a myth-spinner, but is indeed a liar.

If death did, as Paul say, enter the world through one Man (Adam), then there could be no death before him.

Debate Genesis 1 all you want, I have never seen the Church Catholic shrink away from Paul's writings as writings with authority.

If he indeed had authority and confirmed in the New Testament the Creation story of the Old Testament by the Inspiration of the Holy Spirit, I see no reason to doubt the authenticity of Genesis 1/2/3

As for comments regarding the impossibility of the Ark. . . there are plenty of scientific creationisim sites out there that will give you just as intelligent of answers as will evolutionary scientists. . . if you are open enough to explore them.

Many Christians today are afraid to believe in literal creationisim, because then they get labeled as backwater obstructionsists. Sorry, I don't mind the label, and I do belive that God did do what he said he did.

After all, I'd rather get to heaven and have God get a good laugh at my expense because I belived in the "myth" of Creation, than get to heaven and have God appear in a rather wrothful state for having taught others that it was "just fine" and "compatibale with faith" to believe in Evolution.

Father Rob
Primitive Episcopal Presbyter

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Father Robert Lyons
Presbyter, The Primitive Episcopal Church
Chaplain, Pastor, Regional Dean

Do you take everything in the Bible as literal fact?

If so, please explain God's commands for war, infanticide, slavery, etc.