and a additional article regarding The Nature of Christ.
There are no significant differences between Roman Catholics and the ArmenianApostolicChurch, which belongs to the group of churches called pre-Chalcedonian, in that they did not participate in the Council of Chalcedon which defined the doctrine of the two natures of Christ against the Monophysite heresy. Various common declarations, signed by the Pope and by Patriarchs of Armenia, state that the faith is the same and that Jesus Christ is “true God and true man.” Catholikos Karekin II, another precedent, allowed John Paul II to celebrate on the great open-air altar which had just been inaugurated in front of the Cathedral of the Holy See of Etchmiadzin.
orthodoxy,
Please forgive me if I offend, but this a most confusing post. I am not going to protest your view of my church, but I AM going to question your view of your own church (with respect).
Are you telling us that all "Oriental" Orthodox are subservient to the Coptic Pope of Alexandria? I am not sure that the heads of the Armenian Apostolic Church, the Syria Orthodox Church of Antioch, the Malankara Orthodox Church of India, and the Ethiopian Orthodox (not sure about the Eritreans) would agree with this.
If you don't mind I will await some more input here from your own sisters and brothers about this.
I only speak for The Armenian Church If The Coptic Church says they are one faith with The EO and the Armenian Church says we are not. Then we can't say The Oriental Orthodox believes we are one faith with The EO.
The same way if The Antioch Bishop claims they are one with the Syrian Orthodox faith and some other EO bishop says they are not. How can you say the EO are not one with the Syrian Church?
I think we have to label each EO so we can know what their Bishop believes.
Do you believe all EO bishops are in agreement amongst themselves? If not how can we know what EO believe in regard to an issue? This is why we have to label each Orthodox by saying for example Serbian Orthodox or Greek Orthodox and so on.
EO don't have one Pope they can't hold councils any more so how can OO and EO unite???
Let me ask you a question do you think there were misunderstanding at the council of Chelcedon? If not why do some EO Churches say there were? How do we find out EO position on this issue? The answer is we can't there is no such thing as this is what the EO position.
I would have to agree with Yeznik we are closer to RC because RC realized our separation was a misunderstanding and EO can't make up their mind among themselves whether it was a misunderstanding.
Well, orthodoxy, I am afraid you have left me still confused. But don't worry about it. I personally see no, or very little, difference in the way the Oriental communion and the Eastern communion view their respective local churches. I am not here to argue. I could just as easily point out issues where I see differences in the way your churches view things among themselves with respect to us, but I won't. The assumption seems to be that I am trying to prove a point...not so.
And Yeznik, my friend, I am part Laz from NE Turkey (Lazika or Lazistan) and related to the Georgians and am well aware of Church history. In terms of RC v EO in relation to the OO, well, it is a moot point to me unless you wish to explain how the RC's 18 further Ecumenical Councils make them closer to you than our 7 (which are among their 18).
This is just a discussion , not a war, friends.
In my humble opinion, we are closest in theology, if not THE exact theology, to the EO's. To the RC's we are closest to them in a spirit of love and understanding, but I still put my bets on uniting with the EO's first before any other Church, even if it causes a slight schism.
EO heirarchs who are against us is no different than those who are against the fact that man went on the moon. The truth can be easily known by reading ancient manuscripts.
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... interpretation is necessary to prevent our being misled by the mere sound of words. How many have formed wrong conceptions from the language used in different verses through their failure to understand its sense. To many it appears impious to place a different meaning upon a term than what appears to be its obvious signification; yet a sufficient warning against this should be found in the case of those who have so fanatically and stubbornly adhered to Christ’s words, "this [unleavened bread] is My body," refusing to allow that it must mean "this represents My body" — as "the seven candlesticks which thou sawest are [i.e. symbolize] the seven churches" (Rev. 1:20). The error of Universalism, based upon indefinite terms being given an unlimited meaning, points further warning. Arminianism errs in the same direction. "That He by the grace of God should taste death for every man"(Heb. 2:9) no more included Cain, Pharaoh and Judas than "every man" is to be understood absolutely in Luke 16:16; Romans 12:3; 1 Corinthians 4:5; and "all men" in 1 Timothy 2:4, 6, is no more to be taken as meaning all without exception than it is in Luke 3:15; John 3:26; Acts 22:15.
A W Pink
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The more I read about this issue, the more I start to think it was all a huge misunderstanding that needs to be corrected.
Greeting InnerPhyre
Actually if you read about the history of the Council of Chalcedon as well, you will see it also had to do with establishing primacy, which to the Armenian, Egyptian, Ethiopian, Syrian, and Indian Churches rejected. Basically, Rome tried to establish itself as the primacy of the western churches and Constantinople tried to establish itself as the primacy of the eastern churches. Another major issue of the council of Chalcedon is that Rome rejected the primacy of Constantinople. Only in the later centuries when the Church of Rome took over Constantinople, Constantinople was recognized but as a Church of Rome.
Here is a quote from the book the Orthodox Church by Kallistos Ware:
But Chalcedon was more than a defeat for Alexandrian theology: it was a defeat for Alexandrian claims to rule supreme in the east. Canon 28 of Chalcedon confirmed Canon 3 of Constantinople, assigning to New Rome the place next in honor after Old Rome. Leo repudiated this Canon, but the east has ever since recognized its validity. The Council also freed Jerusalem from the jurisdiction of Caesarea and gave it the fifth place among the great sees. The system later known among Orthodox as the Pentarchy was now complete, whereby five great sees in the Church were held in particular honor, and a settled order of precedence was established among them: in order of rank, Rome, Constantinople, Alexandria, Antioch, Jerusalem. All five claimed Apostolic foundation. The first four were the most important cities in the Roman Empire; the fifth was added because it was the place where Christ had suffered on the Cross and risen from the dead. The bishop in each of these cities received the title Patriarch. The five Patriarchates between them divided into spheres of jurisdiction the whole of the known world, apart from Cyprus, which was granted independence by the Council of Ephesus and has remained self-governing ever since.
This ordering of the Sees neglected some the Sees of Oriental Orthodox Churches, additionally the OO churches were opposed of being a part of the jurisdiction not to mention their own Apostolic succession was made secondary compared to the 5 great Sees. This is why in OO churches we all have our own Primates and our own Sees.
The naming of the OO have basically stayed the same since the 1st century. In the beginning all churches were named according to where they were established; for example in the New Testament Paul writes to the Church of Corinth, this church is not named the EO or the RC or the OO church but to a specific geographical point. That is why the OO churches have this naming convention.
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Լո'յս ճշմարիտ Քրիստոս, արժանաւորեա' զհոգի իմ` ուրախութեամբ տեսանել զլոյս փառաց քոց ի կոչման աւուրն եւ հանգչել յուսով բարեաց յօթեվանս արդարոց,մինչեւ յօր մեծի գալստեան քո, ողորմեա' քո արարածոց եւ ինձ` բազմամեղիս:
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