The New covenant

Jerrysch · #71 19th June 2005, 04:20 AM

Originally Posted by Dave Taylor

Sorry about the Acts 9 comment Jerry; that was 'Dispy' who made that comment.

As for your comment above, 'why did Jesus refer to the church as not having been built when He spoke to Peter'; well if your phrasing was correct; your understanding would be correct and I would agree with you; however, you are paraphrasing and re-stating it differently above...from what the scriptures give us.

The scriptures don't tell us the church wasn't not built prior to Jesus speaking to Peter.

Contrarily; using just the few scriptures I gave; we know from the scripures that the church did exist prior to Jesus talking to Peter...so there is a conflict.

However, we also know that prior to this conversation; that the Gentiles as a group; weren't apart of it.

Interesting analysis

, yet I don't see the connection. Jesus stated that He was going to build His church, it was not built as yet. Your comparisons are really apples and oranges. In actuality the church which Jesus spoke of was the group of indicviduals which the Holy Spirit indwells, and He (the Holy Spirit) baptizes them into the Body of Christ, which is another equivelent name for the church.

Jerrysch · #72 19th June 2005, 04:38 AM

Originally Posted by Hedgehog

Jerry,

I had never dug into the old testament much, because as a dispensationalist, you believe that the OT just isnt " mail addressed to you", so why spend time there?

Sadly, this attitude is not limited to dispensationalists! In years gone by I had spent very little time in the Old(er) Testament. When I discovered that God was not done with ethnic Israel, I recognized that much of what had been written in the OT had yet to be fulfilled. (Like the river of water flowing out from the Temple). We must keep straight as to who is being addressed in scripture. All of scripture is not written to us, but all of scripture is written for us. When scripture speaks of Israel, well it means Israel, and we had better have a very good reason to determine that it is not Israel which is being spoken of.

We sepnd time in the OT because it reviels the nature of the God with whom we have to do! We see His power and Glory! For instance the 70 weeks of Daniel, it lays out the entire career of Messiah ~ 490 years before the incarnation! From a human standpoint, think of the risk God endured by allowing that detailed prediction to be made. 490 years of "chances" for the enemy to thwart the will of God regarding the ministry of Messiah. Now we can say, well He is God, and He can do just what He will, but when we consider the risk and He subjected Himself to when He stated it, it shows the ability of the God whom we worship!

Jerrysch · #73 19th June 2005, 04:39 AM

Originally Posted by Hedgehog

I still have my original Bible study saved to my computer that I compiled when I first started out re-exploring the Scriptures, if anyone cares to see it.
I dont firmly hold to everything I put together in there, but you could see where Ive been ( thought wise) and how I came to see things the way I do.

Its just copy and pasted scripture and my thoughts added in- nothing fancy. LOL

Why not post it in your CF journal?

Jerrysch · #74 19th June 2005, 04:45 AM

Originally Posted by Hedgehog

I believe the same people who partake in the new covenant are the same people who are spoken about in the promise to Abraham. Abraham and his Seed, and the Seed is Jesus Christ.
Abraham representing the people of faith ( true Israel) though it was shrouded with mystery for all that time, that it was his bloodline that was spoken of, when in fact it wasnt really his bloodline that was really meant.
And Jesus for Judah. So Israel=Abraham=people of faith. and Judah= his Seed=Jesus Christ.

Thwere is no reason to apply the term "true Isreal" to those who were blessed in the Abrahamic Covenant. There was built in to the provisions of this Covenant the blessisg of all nations. I essence when God made that covenant, He stipulated that by it the entire world would be blessed. The consept of Israel was to come two generations later those who were the literal sons (and daughters) of Jacob.

Jerrysch · #75 19th June 2005, 04:53 AM

Originally Posted by Hedgehog

I believe the same people who partake in the new covenant are the same people who are spoken about in the promise to Abraham. Abraham and his Seed, and the Seed is Jesus Christ.
Abraham representing the people of faith ( true Israel) though it was shrouded with mystery for all that time, that it was his bloodline that was spoken of, when in fact it wasnt really his bloodline that was really meant.
And Jesus for Judah. So Israel=Abraham=people of faith. and Judah= his Seed=Jesus Christ.

How is it that you draw this conclusion? The covenant referrs to Israel and Judah becasue at the time it was given the nation of Israel had been divided by the civil war which commenced after the death of Solomon. The statement "31"Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah-- "

Indicates that this covenant will be made in the future to both segments of the splintered nation of Israel. They infact will be restored as a single nation as depicted in Ez. 37, you know the vision of the dry bones (dem bones, dem bones, dem dry bones

). I couldn't resist that one.

Jerrysch · #76 19th June 2005, 04:59 AM

Originally Posted by Hedgehog

Do you think that every single person of Israelite blood will believe?Of course with God anything is possible, but would God take away their own free will to decide if they want to believe Jesus Christ the Messiah?What is the likelyhod that with their own free will that every single one of them will believe?
I believe the real Israel of God is people of faith, therefore of course ALL of Israel will be saved. Israel consists of people of faith.

I think the scripture to which you are referring is Rom. 11:26And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:
"The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;

This is an event which will happen as the Great Tribulation is comming to a close, when Israel is being besieged by the forces of the antichrist, and they pelad for the return of Messiah, and all living Jews will turn in faith to Messiah, they wiil be a saved nation at that time, not saved because they are of ethnic Israel, but they will be asved by turning in faith ot Messiah, those who will not turn in faith to Messiah will already have been killed, in this way all Israel will be saved. We should not forget that 1/3 of all the Jews living will die in the GT. (I think it is 1/3??)

Tractor1 · #77 19th June 2005, 11:29 AM

Originally Posted by Hedgehog

Tractor,
Im simply trying to show you the fullness we ALL have in Christ, when we are His. Whether we be Jew, gentile or anyone.
For the sake of pleasant coversation, it would have been nice if you had answered back some of the questions I asked also.
Your responses left me feeling like you were purposely trying to be blunt, harsh and unfriendly and I can not fathom why a brother in Christ would want to engage in fellowship like that, which means I must be misunderstanding your intent.
Has our conversation irritated and bothered you? I apologize if it has, yet we are here *typing* to one another for the point of discussing the Scriptures??

I had no problem with you other than your refusal to be specific in replying. My brief rebutals were not an attempt at cruelty, but were aimed at staying on topic. I wasn't interested in your erroneous belief that somehow the Church, or all peoples of faith, have morphed into the "Israel of God," but was instead interested in you interpreting the Scriptures provided. I do appreciate you finally doing so.

In Christ,
Tracey

Hedgehog · #78 19th June 2005, 01:09 PM

(Like the river of water flowing out from the Temple)

I actually dont know exactly what your refering to, but consider Jesus/ the Living water maybe?

Jerrysch · #79 19th June 2005, 10:17 PM

Originally Posted by Hedgehog

I actually dont know exactly what your refering to, but consider Jesus/ the Living water maybe?

It is to be fund in EZ. 47 It is one of my favorite passages in Ezekiel

Dave Taylor · #80 21st June 2005, 01:28 PM

Here is the fulfillment of 'the living water' that will 'flow out of the temple'.

John 4:10-14
"Jesus answered and said unto her, If thou knewest the gift of God, and who it is that saith to thee, Give me to drink; thou wouldest have asked of him, and he would have given thee living water. The woman saith unto him, Sir, thou hast nothing to draw with, and the well is deep: from whence then hast thou that living water? Art thou greater than our father Jacob, which gave us the well, and drank thereof himself, and his children, and his cattle? Jesus answered and said unto her, Whosoever drinketh of this water shall thirst again: But whosoever drinketh of the water that I shall give him shall never thirst; but the water that I shall give him shall be in him a well of water springing up into everlasting life."

John 2:19,21
"Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. But he spake of the temple of his body."

Ephesians 2:20-22 "Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord: In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of God through the Spirit."