| Archived - Ethics & Morality Archived threads from Ethics & Morality |
28th May 2005, 02:31 AM
|  | Warrior of Thor
43     
 | | Join Date: 29th July 2004 Location: Northern Germany
Posts: 2,732
Blessings: 112,358
Reps: 4,963 (power: 15) | | Originally Posted by ChristianCenturion Now granted, Pagan religion is ambiguous at best. There are many variants and not a strong structure that binds them as 'one' religion. But I'm curious as to whether people see the judges ruling as moral in this matter. 
Disgusting. Perfectly disgusting.
And people wonder why I feel more and more driven to call the United States "the 4th Reich"... 
So there's a problem with a child growing up with both christian and pagan influences? Alrighty, why not dump christianity then? What this judge decided would be okay for a christian cleric... but unless the US have been declared and official christian theocracy last night while I slept, no judge has a right to make such a decision.
Unless there are more specific reasons involved than just "two beliefs on one child is too much".
__________________
"ODIN, take this offering from us
be our guidance in war
let us not return without victory
RATHER WE DIE!"
(Stormwarrior, "Sigrblot") |
28th May 2005, 02:40 AM
|  | Veteran / Tuebor
  
| | Join Date: 9th February 2005 Location: In front of a computer
Posts: 12,480
Blessings: 11,880 My Mood 
Reps: 8,007,909,598 (power: 8,007,930) | | Originally Posted by tocis Disgusting. Perfectly disgusting.
And people wonder why I feel more and more driven to call the United States "the 4th Reich"...
So there's a problem with a child growing up with both christian and pagan influences? Alrighty, why not dump christianity then? What this judge decided would be okay for a christian cleric... but unless the US have been declared and official christian theocracy last night while I slept, no judge has a right to make such a decision.
Unless there are more specific reasons involved than just "two beliefs on one child is too much".
Christian cleric???
Who said the judge was even a Christian? 
__________________
If the grass seems to always look greener on the other side of the fence, it is probably a good sign to start watering and fertilizing your own.
Christian stewardship and contentment - the cure for Affluenza. |
28th May 2005, 05:40 AM
|  | Reality has a well known Liberal bias.
31   
| | Join Date: 20th April 2005 Location: New York City
Posts: 2,365
Blessings: 78,078 My Mood 
Reps: 129,479,460 (power: 129,490) | | Originally Posted by ChristianCenturion Christian cleric???
Who said the judge was even a Christian?
Do you really think that the judge isn't a Christian? From context, I would guess that he is.
You seem to expect that the judge isn't a Christian of any sort. What religious affiliation do you expect him to hold?
Further, how do you justify that the ruling went against the wishes of both parents and set the religion of the school above theirs. Shouldn't he have decreed that the child be removed from the school and placed in a secular institution instead of ruling that the parents didn't have the right to raise the child in a religion that both of them sponsored?
If another judge ruled that a Christian couple sending their son to a public school wasn't allowed to discuss or witness Christianity to him, would you have the same response as you have in this case? |
28th May 2005, 07:49 PM
| | Veteran / Tuebor
| | Join Date: 9th February 2005 Location: In front of a computer
Posts: 12,480
Blessings: 11,880 My Mood
Reps: 8,007,909,598 (power: 8,007,930) | | Originally Posted by Spherical Time Do you really think that the judge isn't a Christian? From context, I would guess that he is. Originally Posted by Spherical Time
You seem to expect that the judge isn't a Christian of any sort. What religious affiliation do you expect him to hold?
Actually, I don't "expect" the judge to be any religious sort. His job is to mediate and decide 'tough issues' that are brought before him/her. You will forgive me if I am not inclined to jump to a conclusion as to something that has zero evidence supporting it (i.e. some Christian conspiracy that in truth would drive the child away from that belief than to draw the child closer). I do however 'assume' that the judge and the counseling bureau know somewhat what they are doing and hope that it is the child's best interest that is the focus. Since parents don't have to pass any test and I see no 'credentials' that indicate that they are following any sort of higher standard coupled with the fact that they would rather fight and hope for a nice sum of money following a legal battle, the best interest of the child is not evident in their 'plight'. There is also the number of allegedly unbiased participants vs. a couple that clearly can't even stick to the commitment of marriage.
Further, how do you justify that the ruling went against the wishes of both parents and set the religion of the school above theirs. Shouldn't he have decreed that the child be removed from the school and placed in a secular institution instead of ruling that the parents didn't have the right to raise the child in a religion that both of them sponsored?
That is another assumption. We do not know if that was the first option that was presented, but rejected by the parents. I'm not so naive as to not know that some people would rather hold 'their rights' to do something whether right or wrong above all else... even the welfare of a child and frankly, divorce is an issue of selfishness at its core. So no, I'm not inclined to go either way in thinking that the judge 'should have' done something when I don't know if something wasn't tried first at the beginning. Since it doesn't say that the judge ordered the parents to KEEP the child in that school and it is between the school and their teaching that is cited, it is assumed that the parents CHOOSE to keep the child in the Catholic school.
If another judge ruled that a Christian couple sending their son to a public school wasn't allowed to discuss or witness Christianity to him, would you have the same response as you have in this case?
If there were two separate parties saying the same thing about a Christian family, I would hope that the Christian family would choose what is best for the child. The fact that there is nothing presenting a case other than the 'my rights' plea, I err on the side of protection for the child. That would be so even if it was a judgment against teaching Christian beliefs and the parents had the child in... say a Jewish school (they have those, don't they?). Your question of me personally? It has never happened and I don't foresee it happening, but there is usually more than the fallacy of bifurcation available in the choices. So to answer to a degree, I can say, "No, you wouldn't see me filing a suit for money, but I may petition such a verdict if not to present a more compelling case justifying my actions".
__________________
If the grass seems to always look greener on the other side of the fence, it is probably a good sign to start watering and fertilizing your own.
Christian stewardship and contentment - the cure for Affluenza. |
28th May 2005, 08:14 PM
|  | The cake is a lie.
32 
| | Join Date: 11th May 2004 Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,547
Blessings: 108,936
Reps: 27,572 (power: 41) | | Originally Posted by ChristianCenturion
If there were two separate parties saying the same thing about a Christian family, I would hope that the Christian family would choose what is best for the child.
What you're failing to address, in both threads, is that neither of the concerned parties are the CHILD'S PARENTS.
In my opinion, unless what the parents are doing is causing the child CLEAR harm, it is up to the parents to decide how to raise their children, not all the concerned parties in the world.
How do you respond?
__________________ Look at me still talking when there's science to do! |
28th May 2005, 08:18 PM
|  | Practical Atheist
57 
| | Join Date: 29th March 2004
Posts: 2,080
Blessings: 113,256
Reps: 717 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Jetgirl What you're failing to address, in both threads, is that neither of the concerned parties are the CHILD'S PARENTS.
In my opinion, unless what the parents are doing is causing the child CLEAR harm, it is up to the parents to decide how to raise their children, not all the concerned parties in the world.
How do you respond?
Indeed!
I cut in because 1) I agree, and 2) it's nice to come across the occasional fellow atheist with a little elephant. 
__________________
Please be charitable enough to say "I do not agree" rather than "You do not understand." I spent most of my life as a Christian believer. I was a longtime teacher of the Christian faith. While my knowledge is certainly not encyclopedic, the likelihood is that I do understand. --MuAndNu |
28th May 2005, 08:32 PM
| | The cake is a lie.
32
| | Join Date: 11th May 2004 Location: San Diego
Posts: 4,547
Blessings: 108,936
Reps: 27,572 (power: 41) | | Originally Posted by MuAndNu Indeed!
I cut in because 1) I agree, and 2) it's nice to come across the occasional fellow atheist with a little elephant.
1.) Thank you. I'm usually not one for the "slippery slope" argument, knowing full well it's a fallacy, but I REALLY don't want to see stuff like this get even a smidgen of a toehold.
2.) Now that there's two of us, we can have a parade! I'll bring the tickertape.
__________________ Look at me still talking when there's science to do! |
28th May 2005, 08:39 PM
| | Practical Atheist
57
| | Join Date: 29th March 2004
Posts: 2,080
Blessings: 113,256
Reps: 717 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Jetgirl 1.) Thank you. I'm usually not one for the "slippery slope" argument, knowing full well it's a fallacy, but I REALLY don't want to see stuff like this get even a smidgen of a toehold.
2.) Now that there's two of us, we can have a parade! I'll bring the tickertape.
Won't be much of a parade, I'm afraid. Can you play an instrument? I used to play piano, but that would be, well, awkward.
Actually, there is one more of us that I've seen. Can't remember the screen name right now.
__________________
Please be charitable enough to say "I do not agree" rather than "You do not understand." I spent most of my life as a Christian believer. I was a longtime teacher of the Christian faith. While my knowledge is certainly not encyclopedic, the likelihood is that I do understand. --MuAndNu |
28th May 2005, 08:54 PM
|  | Cultivate Honduras
48  
| | Join Date: 6th November 2004 Location: Tegucigalpa, Honduras
Posts: 7,294
Blessings: 25,720,561 My Mood 
Reps: 271,573,656,411,620,480 (power: 271,573,656,411,636) | | Well, it's not politically correct, but I believe that the only god deserving of praise and worship is MY God. I think other gods are at best figments of men's imaginations . I think worshiping other gods is dangerous, particularly in terms of eternal destiny. I wouldn't wish that on anyone, particularly a child. It makes me angry to see children exposed to such lies. If we TRULY believe that our God is THE God, and that His Word is true, then we want to see the day when every knee will bow and every tongue confess that he is Lord -- and as many as possible to do this BEFORE the sheep and the goats are separated. If we don't truly believe that our God is THE God, then what are we doing here with crosses under our names? (those of us to whom that applies)
I hope that makes it clear enough for ya 
May you be blessed with every spiritual blessing in Christ!
tal
__________________
Pursue love, yet desire earnestly spiritual gifts, but especially that you may prophesy.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
1 Corinthians 14:1 |
28th May 2005, 09:04 PM
|  | Senior Veteran
28  
| | Join Date: 10th May 2005
Posts: 5,528
Blessings: 86,310
Reps: 47,791,471,883,056,584 (power: 47,791,471,883,070) | | | that's fine for you to believe that... but what does that have to do with a judge making an unconstitutional decision? you shouldn't support it just because this time it happens to go a way you like... next time a judge might be ruling that parents can't raise their children Christian |
| Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode |
| | |
