Pink Elephant in the Room

mac_philo · #1 21st June 2002, 10:18 PM

I don't debate evo/creo, as the regulars probably know.

What interests me is that the vitriolic comments aimed at 'evolutionists' apply to the largest Christian denomination, Catholics. Rome has already pledged its (infallible, by their reckoning) acceptance of evolution.

Are the creationist combatants claiming that the roughly one billion Catholics are not theists? If not, why argue against evolution?

Starscream · #2 21st June 2002, 11:39 PM

mac_philo, I of course cannot speak for all the theists here but I think you'll find that many born-agains have no problem declaring Catholics to be false Christians.

TheBear · #3 21st June 2002, 11:49 PM

Let's not make this a Catholic bashing thread. I am not Catholic, but I believe that God created through an evolutionary process.

John

seebs · #4 22nd June 2002, 01:31 AM

Mac_philo: The church has *NOT* made an "infallible" proclamation. The pope has said, in a context *NOT* covered by "infallibility", that he thinks evolution is probably the best available theory, or words to that effect, and that it's probably true that that's how God created people, and why on earth would anyone care?

As it happens, I believe he's correct, but I think it's worth pointing out that, strictly speaking, it's not an "infallible" claim at this point, and probably never will be; the Catholic Church learned a long time ago not to back or oppose scientific results, as opposed to matters of moral doctrine.

mac_philo · #5 22nd June 2002, 02:22 PM

Are you referring to the current pope's comments on evolution, or the 1950 encyclical proclaiming that evolution, if true, is fully compatible with christian doctrine?

Aren't encyclicals infallible?

seebs · #6 23rd June 2002, 01:44 AM

I don't know for sure about encyclicals, but it's obvious that evolution is *COMPATIBLE* with Christian doctrine, so if it is an infallible teaching, well, I can't use it as evidence that they're wrong.

That's a long way from saying it's true, or that it's *required*. However, in the end, it's pretty much obvious that evolution is *COMPATIBLE* with Christian doctrine, given the number of Christians who accept it.

jimigold · #7 23rd June 2002, 09:00 AM

Yeah i think that Evolution is how God created the universe. I mean why not?

On the other hand i have also heard a theory that God placed all the dinosuar bones and stuff on this world as a test?? Who knows.

originally posted by StarscreamI of course cannot speak for all the theists here but I think you'll find that many born-agains have no problem declaring Catholics to be false Christians.

That's not very nice. As long as they believe that Jesus is their saviour and he died to remove their sins, they are still going to heaven surely so watsthebigdeal?

Surely there are more pressing matters in the world then worrying about other people who are going to end up in heaven anyway?

It's tha kinda thinking that started the trouble in Ireland

ardipithecus · #8 24th June 2002, 12:42 AM

Originally posted by mac_philo
Are you referring to the current pope's comments on evolution, or the 1950 encyclical proclaiming that evolution, if true, is fully compatible with christian doctrine?

Aren't encyclicals infallible?

No. Only ex cathedra statements by the pope are considered to by "infallible."

From the Catholic Encyclopedia:

As for the binding force of these documents it is generally admitted that the mere fact that the pope should have given to any of his utterances the form of an encyclical does not necessarily constitute it an ex-cathedra pronouncement and invest it with infallible authority. The degree in which the infallible magisterium of the Holy See is committed must be judged from the circumstances, and from the language used in the particular case.

There is a list of all the things that are required for the pope's statements to be "infallible" here.

LouisBooth · #9 24th June 2002, 11:26 PM

"Are the creationist combatants claiming that the roughly one billion Catholics are not theists? If not, why argue against evolution?"

You'll also note that most catholics use birth control also. If you know about the catholic church this falls under the realm of it may be right, it may not. Its not a it has to be right statement.