Creation & EvolutionForum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too.
So everything being an expression of God's love is contingent on us obeying him? Does that mean promises like "The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing." (Psalm 43:10) only apply to these certain situations?
If so, that's not much of a promise.
9/11/01 was part of the expression of God's love, the part that allows us to choose our own path. Choice is meaningless without the ability to choose evil.
9/11/01 was part of the expression of God's love, the part that allows us to choose our own path. Choice is meaningless without the ability to choose evil.
We can debate it if you like, but I'm not sure there's much point--it's just as hard to dispel this misconception as it is to dispel the misconception of creationism. And unlike creationism, believing in free will doesn't cause very much harm.
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9/11/01 was part of the expression of God's love, the part that allows us to choose our own path. Choice is meaningless without the ability to choose evil.
Or to put it another way, love is not freely given, unless we can choose not to love. Do we really love God if we have no choice? Do we really love if we are forced to love?
So everything being an expression of God's love is contingent on us obeying him?
Everyone gets to choose if they want to walk in God's love or not. That should have us shaking in our boots that the world is filled with people who reject the love of God. But because of God's love for us, and because of our love for God, He sends His angels to watch over and to protect us. His rock solid promise to us IS that He will cause all things to work out for the best for us. For those who love God and are called according to His purpose. When we follow His plan for us, then we have nothing to worry about, and nothing to fear. Those who reject God and His love have everything to worry about, and everything to fear.
Storms in life may come and go, and we may have a mess to clean up afterwards. But the love of God endures forever. He watches out for us and He causes all things to work out for the best for us.
When we follow His plan for us, then we have nothing to worry about, and nothing to fear.
I'm having a hard time figuring out what your views on this are. Were the born-again Christians who were in the twin towers on 9/11/01 getting what was best for them or not?
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I'm having a hard time figuring out what your views on this are. Were the born-again Christians who were in the twin towers on 9/11/01 getting what was best for them or not?
actually to answer your qestion, yes they did get what was best.
now for the next question, why on earth would dying such a horrible death be getting whats best?
that answer, in order to undestand, requires faith.
here are a few verses that may explaine to you how I as a disciple of jesus view death. bare in mind, i am hirrified by the atrocities committed by men, but it is my faith in God that doesn't let me fear. my fiance just told me of a friedn of hers who was tortured to death in ways i would rather not describe by on of the local drug lords, she would not even mention his name in the privacy of her own home. anyhow here are a few verses.
job 13:15 ''Though he slay me, yet will I trust in him: but I will maintain mine own ways before him.''
personally i believe that God, as the omnipotent creator of the universe, has a great deal to do with everything that happens. with that in mind, those words of job fit the situation faced by those christians who died in the towers.
heres another verse: Philippians 1:21
''21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.''
christians should not fear death.
Ephesians 1:11 ''(jesus) In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of him who worketh all things after the counsel of his own will:''
here is another verse:
psalms 116:15 ''Precious in the sight of the LORD is the death of his saints.''
why would God allow such a horrible thing to happen, thousands of people dying, (lets just forget about the thousands of people who have died under bombs of the clinton and bush administration, not to mention the millions of babies killed by abortionists) all at once?
the bible says that the blood of the innocent will stand as a whitness against the wicked in the last day, thats why God allows his saints to be killed.
mind you that death is not a big deal to God, he can and will ('cause he promised to) resurect all those who have died, both the just and unjust.
anyhow, sorry for mot posting the verses for those last few statements, something just came up and i need to be off, next post, promise..
disciple00
Last edited by disciple00; 5th May 2004 at 08:00 PM.
Reason: untolerable typo
I'm having a hard time figuring out what your views on this are. Were the born-again Christians who were in the twin towers on 9/11/01 getting what was best for them or not?
Where we are going, is far better than where we are at. The reason we remain is so we can help as many people along as we are able to. It is because of our love for people that we do not go on to Heaven, even though we know that Heaven is a far better place than this world that we are living in.
Where we are going, is far better than where we are at. The reason we remain is so we can help as many people along as we are able to. It is because of our love for people that we do not go on to Heaven, even though we know that Heaven is a far better place than this world that we are living in.
Nice thoughts. Though there seem to be many who would disagree with you--if only for the fact that it can be inconvenient
Ok...Prayer--eh, can't hurt.
Miracle healing--I'll believe it when I see it.
If I told you (and I address this to everyone, especial those who argue for it) that I made a wish on a shooting star when I was little and that wish came true would you believe me? Would you accept that stars have magical properties? Why or why not?
We can debate it if you like, but I'm not sure there's much point--it's just as hard to dispel this misconception as it is to dispel the misconception of creationism. And unlike creationism, believing in free will doesn't cause very much harm.
Free will exists, because without it the universe would be a meaningless exercise. God did not create the universe to wind up, and watch tick down inevitably. God knows every choice you could make, and the results of all of them, and he knows which one you will make, but that doesn't negate free will. We still choose freely, it's just that God knows what choice you will make. If you know someone so well that you can predict what they will do does that negate their free will? And how much better does God know you then you even know yourself?
If I told you (and I address this to everyone, especial those who argue for it) that I made a wish on a shooting star when I was little and that wish came true would you believe me? Would you accept that stars have magical properties? Why or why not?
That one is easy: Because shooting stars are not really stars.
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