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  #1  
Old 20th June 2002, 09:08 PM
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No evidence against evolution

We have at least one creationist here who admits that he knows of no evidence against evolution. We have another that claims the fossil record itself is evidence against evolution?

Is there evidence against evolution in the fossil record?

Anyone else like to weigh in? Is there any evidence against evolution anywhere?

Anyone who has found some hard data that could not be found if neo-darwinian evolution were true... lets hear about it!

We may just put together the research team that wins the next Nobel Prize!

(or not)
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  #2  
Old 4th March 2011, 12:43 AM
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Originally Posted by Jerry Smith View Post
Is there evidence against evolution in the fossil record?
It's what is not there that counts.

Anyone can dig something out of the ground, assign a number to it, then play connect-the-dots, where they draw lines and claim the dots are indicative of one big process.

The truth is that macroevolution runs on the god-of-the-gaps principle.
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  #3  
Old 4th March 2011, 01:29 AM
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Originally Posted by AV1611VET View Post
The truth is that macroevolution runs on the god-of-the-gaps principle.
What? If anything, it's creationism that works on the God of the gaps principle, since every missing link, every as-yet unsolved problem in evolutionary biology is taken as proof that God did it, only to be later forgotten about when a discovery / plausible explanation is found.

Consider the following comments from Ken Miller:

I don't know if our pastor sensed that his description of God as craftsman was meeting a certain tide of skepticism, but no matter...He walked over to the altar and picked up a flower from the vase.

"Look at the beauty of a flower. The Bible tells us that even Solomon in all his glory was never arrayed as one of these. And do you know what? Not a single person in the world can tell us what makes a flower bloom. All those scientists in their laboratories, the ones who can split the atom and build jet planes and televisions, well, not one of them can tell you how a plant makes flowers." and why should they be able to? "Flowers, just like you, are the work of God."

I was impressed. No one argued, no one wisecracked. We filed out of the church like good little boys and girls, ready for our First Communion the next day. And I never thought of it again, until this symposium on developmental biology. Sandwiched between two speakers working on more fashionable topics in animal development was Elliot M. Meyerowitz, a plant scientist at Caltech...I sat there with an ear-to-ear grin on my face...Meyerowitz, you see, had explained how plants made flowers.

The four principal parts of a flower...are actually modified leaves. This is one of the reasons why plants can produce reproductive cells just about anywhere...Plants can produce new flowers anywhere they can grow new leaves. Somehow, however, the plant must find a way to "tell" an ordinary cluster of leaves that they should develop into floral parts. That's where Meyerowitz's lab came in.

Several years of patient genetic study had isolated a set of mutants that could form only two or three of the four parts. By crossing the various mutants. his team was able to identify four genes that have to be turned on or off in a specific pattern to produce a normal flower. Each of these genes, in turn, sets of a series of signals that "tell" the cells of a brand-new bud to develop as sepals or petals rather than ordinary leaves. The details are remarkable, and the interactions between the genes are fascinating. To me...the scientific details were just the icing on the cake. The real message was, "Father Murphy, you were wrong." God doesn't make a flower. The floral induction genes do.

Miller K "Finding Darwin's God" (Harper 2007) p 260-262
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  #4  
Old 4th March 2011, 01:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Targ View Post
What? If anything, it's creationism that works on the God of the gaps principle, since every missing link, every as-yet unsolved problem in evolutionary biology is taken as proof that God did it, only to be later forgotten about when a discovery / plausible explanation is found.

Consider the following comments from Ken Miller:
" God doesn't make a flower. The floral induction genes do."

Who made the floral induction genes?
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  #5  
Old 4th March 2011, 01:59 AM
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9 years, AV? Really?
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  #6  
Old 4th March 2011, 03:17 AM
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20th June 2002, 07:08 PM
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Old 4th March 2011, 04:57 AM
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Originally Posted by AV1611VET View Post
It's what is not there that counts.

Anyone can dig something out of the ground, assign a number to it, then play connect-the-dots, where they draw lines and claim the dots are indicative of one big process.

The truth is that macroevolution runs on the god-of-the-gaps principle.
Again AV, your apple challenge needs resurrecting more than this thread. But I know you'll keep ignoring it as it doesn't suit your narcissistic tendencies.

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  #8  
Old 4th March 2011, 06:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Jerry Smith View Post
We have at least one creationist here who admits that he knows of no evidence against evolution. We have another that claims the fossil record itself is evidence against evolution?

Is there evidence against evolution in the fossil record?

Anyone else like to weigh in? Is there any evidence against evolution anywhere?
There is evidence that speaks against the claim that all "species of" life come from one common (biological) origin. If the "tree of life" were drawn from a biblical Creationist world view, it would look like "a forest" rather than one particular "tree" with one common trunk. One could draw separate trees for each "kind" or for each "day" of creation week or a number of ways.

Well "Science" moves each day closer to "the forest" view for the tree of life and farther and farther away from the single trunk tree of life. Typically every new scientific discovery pulls the forks in this view closer and closer to the ground. As a creationist, I fully expect this trend to continue its present direction till there are a number of trunks followed by some limited branching with all the "missing fossils" clustered around the branching at the base.

We can study the "evolution" of species in current time but studying the top branches does not force us to impose the same theory onto the base of the diagram.
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  #9  
Old 4th March 2011, 06:53 AM
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Originally Posted by SkyWriting View Post
Well "Science" moves each day closer to "the forest" view for the tree of life and farther and farther away from the single trunk tree of life.
Pro-tip - not for animals it doesn't. The "vines" around the base of the tree of life only applies to beings in which horizontal gene transfer happens easily.

Bilaterians are truly monophyletic and some studies show that all Metazoans are monophyletic.
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  #10  
Old 4th March 2011, 08:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Jerry Smith View Post
Is there evidence against evolution in the fossil record?
Fossils of archaea, cyanobacteria, brown algae (etc.), prove there has been no evolution over hundred million year and billion year timeframes.
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