| Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too. |
 | | 
17th May 2005, 12:03 PM
|  | Regular Member
28    
| | Join Date: 18th March 2005
Posts: 317
Blessings: 90,224
Reps: 385 (power: 0) | | | Can there be a *genuine* first person ?
God creating with the appearance of old before anything could grow old implies that he had knowledge of how things should be if they were young and simulate (imagine) from there until he arrived at the point where the Universe looked old enough. To create a mature couple of humans he must have wired memories in their brain of things that never actually happened. I can't see how someone can have a personality yet have no memories of their life. Adam must have felt like someone awakening from a dream to an engineered reality and said: "I have so many memories of my life, none of which are true." (from The Matrix)
What are your thoughts? This is a divergent topic from the larger "God creating with the appearance of age." |
17th May 2005, 12:35 PM
|  | Eat my shorts
 
 | | Join Date: 11th April 2005
Posts: 46,665
Blessings: 73,435,376 My Mood 
Reps: 1,424,895,203,317,307,648 (power: 1,424,895,203,317,360) | | | Are you asking..after he was sent from Eden?
Did he lose all memory? I doubt it.
Genesis was written when men could write and store the writings.
In the earliest times, there was no need for writing. And they did not write, they just lived {OR drew pics on rocks}. Interesting thing is the degree of knowledge the ancient ppl had.
For instance I was reading about the hanging gardens in Iran...? Or Iraq? Anyway, the gardens were made on 'manmade mountains' actually buildings. And they made a very modern type water system which actually watered the tops. This was the lush gardening they had, otherwise the sand did not make for a garden.
Very tech really.
Adam still had God...as God spoke to humanity until the time of Moses when it was requested that He no longer directly speak to them, because it feared them to their hearts with dread.
Having sin in their essense now, the perfect God was too much for them to handle.
So God started giving dreams, and Prophets.
__________________
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Matthew Chapter 7 7 "Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. 8 For everyone who asks, receives; and the one who seeks, finds; and to the one who knocks, the door will be opened." |
17th May 2005, 12:52 PM
| | Regular Member
28
| | Join Date: 18th March 2005
Posts: 317
Blessings: 90,224
Reps: 385 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by WarriorAngel Are you asking..after he was sent from Eden?
Did he lose all memory? I doubt it.
You didn't understand my question. I will elaborate:
According to the Bible, Adam was created as a full-grown adult. Eve likewise. For a human to develop a personality, he needs to accumulate experience. Even for the most basic of things you need experience: to see the world the right way up, to understand visual stimuli, to hear, to walk, to talk.
According to the narrative, Adam also gave names to all animals. How could he do that before conceptualizing a vast range of notions and phenomena around him so that he could capture it in symbols to label on other living beings?
If Adam had anything in mind, it must have been "planted" there by God, memories of things that had never actually taken place. Experience and memories is what defines a human personality. If Adam was an adult, he must have had a personality ascribed to him by God prior to his waking up to life.
Or was he an adult with the mind of a newborn? That would have been so sad.  |
17th May 2005, 02:14 PM
|  | Legend
29 
| | Join Date: 23rd October 2004 Location: Utah, USA
Posts: 12,080
Blessings: 1,083,646
Reps: 22,093,396,603,335,756 (power: 22,093,396,603,355) | | Originally Posted by c'mon sense God creating with the appearance of old before anything could grow old implies that he had knowledge of how things should be if they were young and simulate (imagine) from there until he arrived at the point where the Universe looked old enough. To create a mature couple of humans he must have wired memories in their brain of things that never actually happened. I can't see how someone can have a personality yet have no memories of their life. Adam must have felt like someone awakening from a dream to an engineered reality and said: "I have so many memories of my life, none of which are true." (from The Matrix)
What are your thoughts? This is a divergent topic from the larger "God creating with the appearance of age."
As for God making the Universe appear old, no. Can there genuinely be a first person? yes there can. There's usually a "first" for everything. |
17th May 2005, 03:10 PM
|  | Veteran
54  
| | Join Date: 4th February 2005 Location: Greensboro,NC
Posts: 1,096
Blessings: 110,685
Reps: 1,813 (power: 10) | | Originally Posted by c'mon sense God creating with the appearance of old before anything could grow old implies that he had knowledge of how things should be if they were young and simulate (imagine) from there until he arrived at the point where the Universe looked old enough. To create a mature couple of humans he must have wired memories in their brain of things that never actually happened. I can't see how someone can have a personality yet have no memories of their life. Adam must have felt like someone awakening from a dream to an engineered reality and said: "I have so many memories of my life, none of which are true." (from The Matrix)
What are your thoughts? This is a divergent topic from the larger "God creating with the appearance of age."
Creating with the appearance of age has always struck me as the ultimate deception.In the case of Adam and Eve,you bring up some excellent points. Bravo!!How could he know language when it has to be learned from other people? |
17th May 2005, 03:46 PM
|  | bel esprit
29  
| | Join Date: 28th October 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC
Posts: 11,802
Blessings: 103,681
Reps: 45,671 (power: 65) | | Originally Posted by blackmarch Can there genuinely be a first person? yes there can. There's usually a "first" for everything.
I agree, but I think he's talking about Adam being created as a mature adult without a childhood or puberty stage.
__________________
Veritas omnia vincit.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
|
17th May 2005, 04:38 PM
| | Regular Member
28
| | Join Date: 18th March 2005
Posts: 317
Blessings: 90,224
Reps: 385 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Blackmarch As for God making the Universe appear old, no. Can there genuinely be a first person? yes there can. There's usually a "first" for everything.
I wasn't exactly looking for YES or NO answers. Please think about the possible problems with it.
In my opinion, there can't be a first real person just as there can't be a first single individual of a new species, nor can there be a first, single speaker of a new language. Think about it. |
17th May 2005, 05:56 PM
| | Senior Member
46
| | Join Date: 15th November 2002
Posts: 577
Blessings: 70,476
Reps: 1,384 (power: 11) | | | But there can be a first recipie for chocolate cake. |
17th May 2005, 09:00 PM
|  | Legend
59 
| | Join Date: 9th February 2002 Location: Ohio
Posts: 25,410
Blessings: 220,426
Reps: 12,682 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by c'mon sense According to the Bible, Adam was created as a full-grown adult. Eve likewise.
The Bible does not really say that Adam was created full-grown. There are some TE's that believe that Adam evolved before God put him in the garden. It could be that it took millions of years for God to create Adam, but at just the right time He put Adam in the Garden that He planted in Eden. The thing was, God could not find a mate comparable for Adam, so Eve was created full grown, from the side or the DNA of Adam. As you know, men have all the DNA to produce a women, but women do not have the DNA needed to produce men. |
18th May 2005, 10:35 AM
| | Veteran
54
| | Join Date: 4th February 2005 Location: Greensboro,NC
Posts: 1,096
Blessings: 110,685
Reps: 1,813 (power: 10) | | Originally Posted by JohnR7 The Bible does not really say that Adam was created full-grown. There are some TE's that believe that Adam evolved before God put him in the garden. It could be that it took millions of years for God to create Adam, but at just the right time He put Adam in the Garden that He planted in Eden. The thing was, God could not find a mate comparable for Adam, so Eve was created full grown, from the side or the DNA of Adam. As you know, men have all the DNA to produce a women, but women do not have the DNA needed to produce men.
Theistic evolution is a vain attempt to give scientific support to the creation story.
As you apparently don't know,all human babies are female.In the womb,something must be added to produce a male. | | |
| Thread Tools | | | | Display Modes |  Linear Mode |
| | |
