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  #1  
Unread 16th June 2002, 06:21 PM
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Craters

Craters are the result of impacts. They are something
that is completely at odds with YEC timescales. With
the exception of were geologic activity is obvious (i.e.
erosion, volcanism, etc.) every planetary body with
a solid observable surface is just plain litered with
craters.

Callisto:


Source

Mercury:


Source

Tethys (a moon of Saturn):


Source

Think of the Moon. It is just plain loaded with them including
some that are hundreds of miles wide. The Moon is extremely close to
the Earth (in astronomical terms). Earth, because it has 81 times the
mass of the Moon, has 81 times the gravity. Hense one would expect
that Earth has been hit even more often. If all those hits had
happened in the last 10,000 years it would have been very noticable
to anyone living at the time to say the least. And we should be
surounded by many very obvious craters since there has not been enough
time for them to be eroded away, subducted, etc. One of the few
obvious craters is in Arizona (and it is worth the visit BTW). It
is still fairly clear. It is actually one of smallest craters
known on Earth. Over the last few decades geologists have found
many other craters, sometimes over a hundred miles across.

Now it would seem reasonable that if the biggest craters are
going to remain obvious for far longer than the "small" ones
like the one in Arizona.

Now lets look at Ganymede:



Source

Notice we have a history here. An old surface that has been
hit by impacting objects many times. One section got
reworked geologically and then started getting hit also.
Finally an train of meteors hit it. This is not
unlike what happened to Jupiter a few years back when a comet
that was ripped into many pieces by Jupiter's gravity impacted
on Jupiter.

It also happened on Earth. A few years back it was noticed
that several craters on Earth had about the same age. These
craters were plotted on a map of what the Earth looked like
214 million years ago (i.e. where the continents were at
according to models using data from radiometric dating). The
results were extremely consistent with chain of meteors forming
a series of craters on Earth. The ages of the craters was
determined by several different dating methods.

You can find out more about this amazing bit of science at:

Are Radioactive Dating Methods Consistent With Each Other?


Lets quote the conclusion:

These dates were obtained by several different radioactive methods,
on rocks of several different kinds, by geologists from four different
countries. But the dates are consistent. That is the usual case, so
the article didn't bother to comment on it.
The K/T is what geologists call the boundary
between the Mesozoic and the Cenozoic. It is when a mass extinction
took place. No dinosaurs (non-avian dinosaurs) are found after this
event. A crater that dates back to this time has been found showing
that an extremely large impact occured at this time. Whether this
killed the dinosaurs is still under debate. In any event, this
event through up a large amount of debris into the atmosphere.
This included a large amounts of the element iridium which is rare
on Earth but common in meteors. This resulted in an iridium-rich
layer found at the K/T all around the world. Now if the geological
column was some fantasy invented by Charles Lyell in the 19th
Century, as most YECs would have us believe. Why is there a
consistent feature about it that is world-wide in extent?
The reason is simple, the K/T represents a real place in time.

And the dating of the layer and things formed by the impact like tektites
give very consistent results from radiometric dating:
Code:
Table 2. 40Ar/39Ar ages for K-T tektites and related K-T boundary deposits 
Location                       Material  Method              #tests  Age (Ma) 
Haiti        (Beloc Formation) tektites 40Ar/39Ar total fusion  52 64.4 +/- 0.1 
Haiti        (Beloc Formation) tektites 40Ar/39Ar age spectrum   4 64.4 +/- 0.4 
Haiti        (Beloc Formation) tektites 40Ar/39Ar age spectrum   2 64.5 +/- 0.2 
Haiti        (Beloc Formation) tektites 40Ar/39Ar age spectrum   4 64.8 +/- 0.2 
Haiti        (Beloc Formation) tektites 40Ar/39Ar total fusion  18 64.9 +/- 0.1 
Haiti        (Beloc Formation) tektites 40Ar/39Ar total fusion   3 65.1 +/- 0.2 
Haiti        (Beloc Formation) tektites 40Ar/39Ar age spectrum   9 65.0 +/- 0.2 
Mexico                         tektites 40Ar/39Ar total fusion   2 65.1 +/- 0.5 
Hell Creek   (Z-coal)          tektites 40Ar/39Ar total fusion  28 64.8 +/- 0.1 
Hell Creek   (Z-coal)          tektites 40Ar/39Ar age spectrum   1 66.0 +/- 0.5 
Hell Creek   (Z-coal)          tektites 40Ar/39Ar age spectrum   1 64.7 +/- 0.1 
Hell Creek   (Z-coal)          tektites 40Ar/39Ar total fussion 17 64.8 +/- 0.2 
Hell Creek   (Z-coal)          b,s      K-Ar                    12 64.6 +/- 1.0 
Hell Creek   (Z-coal)          b,s      Rb-Sr isochron (26 data) 1 63.7 +/- 0.6 
Hell Creek   (Z-coal)          zircon   U-Pb concordia (16 data) 1 63.9 +/- 0.8 
Saskatchewan (Ferris Coal)     sanidine 40Ar/39Ar total fussion  6 64.7 +/- 0.1 
Saskatchewan (Ferris Coal)     sanidine 40Ar/39Ar age spectrum   1 64.6 +/- 0.2 
Saskatchewan (Ferris Coal)     b,s      K-Ar                     7 65.8 +/- 1.2 
Saskatchewan (Ferris Coal)     various  Rb-Sr isochron (10 data) 1 64.5 +/- 0.4 
Saskatchewan (Ferris Coal)     zircon   U-Pb concordia (16 data) 1 64.4 +/- 0.8 
Saskatchewan (Ferris Coal)     sanidine 40Ar/39Ar total fussion 11 64.8 +/- 0.2 
Saskatchewan (Nevis coal)      sanidine 40Ar/39Ar age spectrum   1 64.7 +/- 0.2 
Saskatchewan (Nevis coal)      biotite  K-Ar                     2 64.8 +/- 1.4 
Saskatchewan (Nevis coal)      various  Rb-Sr (7 data)           1 63.9 +/- 0.6 
Saskatchewan (Nevis coal)      zircon   U-pb concordia (12 data) 1 64.3 +/- 0.8

The source is from an article by one the top researchers in the field
of radiometric dating.


Note that I shortened a few things: b=biotite, s=sanidine, Hell Creek
is in Montana, etc. If you can't figure it out check the original
article. If you want to know what an isochron is see
this.


The odds of such such consistent results if radiometric dating was
wrong is pretty much zero.
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  #2  
Unread 17th June 2002, 10:22 PM
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Re: Craters

Originally posted by ardipithecus
Craters are the result of impacts. They are something
that is completely at odds with YEC timescales.
Now you're just being silly. Whitcomb and Morris explained that already, in the Genesis Flood: the craters of the moon and Mercury were created during the year of Noah’s flood.

It's all so simple.
:rolleyes:
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  #3  
Unread 18th June 2002, 03:58 PM
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Re: Re: Craters

Originally posted by Sauron


Now you're just being silly. Whitcomb and Morris explained that already, in the Genesis Flood: the craters of the moon and Mercury were created during the year of Noah’s flood.

It's all so simple.
:rolleyes:
Watch it or I will have to toss that ring of yours down Mt. Doom.

Seriously, do you expect any real creationists to respond? After all this a subject that just plain old common sense tells us the the Earth must be ancient.
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  #4  
Unread 21st April 2011, 01:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ardipithecus View Post
Craters are the result of impacts.
Of what?
Originally Posted by ardipithecus View Post
They are something that is completely at odds with YEC timescales.
No, they aren't.

Cratering probably occurred when the fallen angels took on the good angels in a cosmic battle.

Note this passage which, by itself, looks mundane:

Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Daniel has been in prayer for three weeks to God, and God had sent an angel to take the answer to Daniel, but the angel could not get through the infrastructure that Satan had set up, and so he (the angel) had to enlist the aid of Michael the Archangel.

Battles like this probably occurred throughout the universe after Lucifer rebelled, and ⅓ of the angels followed him in the insurrection.
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  #5  
Unread 21st April 2011, 01:17 AM
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Originally Posted by ardipithecus View Post
Seriously, do you expect any real creationists to respond?
It make take someone to necrobump your thread; but yes, one just might.
Originally Posted by ardipithecus View Post
After all this a subject that just plain old common sense tells us the the Earth must be ancient.
In that case then, common sense can take a hike.
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  #6  
Unread 21st April 2011, 01:30 AM
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Common sense and reality seem to be quite the hiking duo, thanks to you.
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Unread 21st April 2011, 01:35 AM
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Originally Posted by CaliforniaSun View Post
Common sense and reality seem to be quite the hiking duo, thanks to you.
I can assure you that they're in for a LONG walk soon.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.


(Note what's not going -- )
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Unread 21st April 2011, 01:54 AM
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Originally Posted by AV1611VET View Post
I can assure you that they're in for a LONG walk soon.

Matthew 24:35 Heaven and earth shall pass away, but my words shall not pass away.

Mark 13:31 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.

Luke 21:33 Heaven and earth shall pass away: but my words shall not pass away.


(Note what's not going -- )
Diabolical plagiarism?
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  #9  
Unread 21st April 2011, 05:06 AM
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Originally Posted by AV1611VET View Post
Of what?

No, they aren't.

Cratering probably occurred when the fallen angels took on the good angels in a cosmic battle.

Note this passage which, by itself, looks mundane:

Daniel 10:13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.

Daniel has been in prayer for three weeks to God, and God had sent an angel to take the answer to Daniel, but the angel could not get through the infrastructure that Satan had set up, and so he (the angel) had to enlist the aid of Michael the Archangel.

Battles like this probably occurred throughout the universe after Lucifer rebelled, and ⅓ of the angels followed him in the insurrection.
It certainly is mundane. When does the story move to Callisto? I love a good sci-fi.
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  #10  
Unread 21st April 2011, 08:03 AM
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Originally Posted by AV1611VET View Post
Cratering probably occurred when the fallen angels took on the good angels in a cosmic battle.
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---

Is it too modern to notice that there is nothing [in the ten commandments] about the protection of children from cruelty, nothing about rape, nothing about slavery, and nothing about genocide? Or is it too exactingly “in context” to notice that some of these very offenses are about to be positively recommended? - Christopher Hitchens

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