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31st May 2005, 04:33 PM
|  | Earning my Ph.D in Procrastination
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Reps: 8,747,917,946,289,294 (power: 8,747,917,946,300) | | | After reading up on the indoctrination of evolution (as well as the sex ed thing) I've decided not to enroll my children in public school. I'm caught between homeschooling and private Christian schooling though I'd have to be careful. Even the church nowadays is compromising and letting in evolution and millions of years.
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"Ours is a faith for victory. Thus, if you are Christ’s, stop talking about defeat. There is a world to be conquered, and we are the people called to do it." ~ R. J. Rushdoony
History has never been dominated by majorities but only by dedicated minorities who stand unconditionally on their faith. ~ R.J. Rushdoony
"There is not one square inch in the entire universe of which Christ cannot say, ’This is Mine!’” ~ Abraham Kuyper |
2nd June 2005, 10:52 AM
| | Senior Veteran
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Reps: 54,806,534,063,437,296 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by WannaWitness I know about Rev. Hovind. He's great, isn't he? I like his presentation, too!  REV. Hovind?????  |
2nd June 2005, 03:33 PM
|  | Veteran
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| | Join Date: 25th May 2005 Location: Louisiana
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Reps: 2,147 (power: 11) | | As far as I know, he's not a reverend. Then again, I have accidentally put the wrong title on someone before. Maybe that's the case.  Originally Posted by The Lady Kate REV. Hovind????? |
3rd June 2005, 01:32 PM
|  | Natura non facit saltum Angels Team
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Reps: 72,307,875,429,094,864 (power: 72,307,875,429,112) | | | I had never heard of Hovind untill I started coming on here. I watched a couple of his videos and listened to his radio program a couple of times and really have no problem with him. He was a biology teacher for years and turned his teaching of basic biology into a ministry. I was called a little Hovind a couple of times and I had no idea what they were talking about. I think it may well of been that he has reached a large number of people with reasons for faith and evolutionists just don't like that.
I toyed with the idea of progressive creationism for a while but these voices are not satisfied with compromise. They want a wholesale sell out to the world's version of natural history and that is simply not going to happen with me. Ten times Genesis states, 'And God said', ten times it states, 'after their kind'. After having studied the Bible at length and read a ton of evolutionist literature I have come to the conclusion that the Bible and science dovetail perfectly. The evolutionary tree diagram is a myth and Christians do well to be highly skeptical of both evolutionary arguments and psuedo-christian compromises with it.
The Bible is a history book that is the living wittness of God intervening in the affairs of men. It started when he spoke the worlds into existance and will only end at the consumation of the ages when He creates the new heavens and the new earth.
Grace and peace,
Mark
__________________ “Gärtner, by the results of these transformation experiments, was led to oppose the opinion of those naturalists who dispute the stability of plant species and believe in a continuous evolution of vegetation. He perceives in the complete transformation of one species into another an indubitable proof that species are fixed with limits beyond which they cannot change.” (G. Mendel)
Last edited by mark kennedy; 3rd June 2005 at 03:15 PM.
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3rd June 2005, 02:13 PM
| | Senior Veteran
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Reps: 54,806,534,063,437,296 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by mark kennedy I had never heard of Hovind untill I started coming on here. I watched a couple of his videos and listened to his radio program a couple of times and really have no problem with him. He was a biology teacher for years and turned his teaching of basic biology into a ministry. I was called a little Hovind a couple of times and I had no idea what they were talking about. I think it may well of been that he has reached a large number of people with reasons for faith and evolutionists just don't like that. I am a little more familiar with Hovind, and am quite disappointed with him of several levels... He doesn't say where he was a biology teacher, so his credentials in that area cannot be checked. He goes by the title of Dr. Hovind, having obtained his Ph.D from Patriot University...which is not, shall we say, much of an academic institution...
He certainly does reach people...he is charismatic, if nothing else... but what is his message? I've heard much of his teachings, and his "Challenge to prove evolution true," and have found it so full of misrepresentations, half-truths, and outright lies that I cannot in good conscience put much stock in anything he says.
Even other, more mainstream, Creationist ministries such as AiG or ICR have distanced themselves from Hovind.
...Which is why I practically choked on my Dr. Pepper when I heard him addressed as "Rev. Hovind..."
He is exactly the sort who, in the long run, will do more harm than good to the creationist movement... and, God forbid, to Christianity by extention.
I toyed with the idea of progressive creationism for a while but these voices are not satisfied with compromise. They want a wholesale sell out to the world's version of natural history and that is simply not going to happen with me. Ten times Genesis states, 'And God said', ten times it states, 'after their kind'. After having studied the Bible at length and read a ton of evolutionist literature I have come to the conclusion that the Bible and science dovetail perfectly. Well, you've studied the Bible, decided what it means, studied the natural world, decided what that means, and found a way to reconcile them as we all know they must. Certainly nobody's denying you the right to do that...
The evolutionary tree diagram is a myth and Christians do well to be highly skeptical of both evolutionary arguments and psuedo-christian compromises with it. Bold words...
The Bible is a history book that is the living wittness of God intervening in the affairs of men. It started when he spoke the worlds into existance and will only end at the consumation of the ages when He creates the new heavens and the new earth. The Bible is history books... and so much more. Let none of us ever make the mistake of trying to pigeonhole it.
Upon you as well,
Kate |
3rd June 2005, 02:48 PM
| | Natura non facit saltum Angels Team
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Reps: 72,307,875,429,094,864 (power: 72,307,875,429,112) | | Originally Posted by The Lady Kate I am a little more familiar with Hovind, and am quite disappointed with him of several levels... He doesn't say where he was a biology teacher, so his credentials in that area cannot be checked. He goes by the title of Dr. Hovind, having obtained his Ph.D from Patriot University...which is not, shall we say, much of an academic institution
Like I said I know very little about the guy and I actually fell asleep trying to listen to one of his free seminars. It sounds like he is some kind of a Bible school product and that's fine, I just don't know that much about him. He certainly does reach people...he is charismatic, if nothing else... but what is his message? I've heard much of his teachings, and his "Challenge to prove evolution true," and have found it so full of misrepresentations, half-truths, and outright lies that I cannot in good conscience put much stock in anything he says
Those are pretty serious things to accuse someone of, I have heard some things like that said about creation scientists as well. I may have to track down some of his stuff and get back to you on this. Even other, more mainstream, Creationist ministries such as AiG or ICR have distanced themselves from Hovind
I'll have to take your word for that, I never seen him mentioned there and they tend to like professional scientists on those sites. Well, you've studied the Bible, decided what it means, studied the natural world, decided what that means, and found a way to reconcile them as we all know they must. Certainly nobody's denying you the right to do that...
Well, it took a while but there is nothing in the genetics side of TOE that is inconsistant with a literal reading of Genesis. The Darwinian side is pretty much philosophy and supposition so when people ask me if I believe in TOE I sepearate universal descent from modern genetics. They want you to swallow it whole which is completly uncalled for.
It my one major problem with evolution and I can accept most everything else. I draw the line at independant creation vs. universal descent since universal descent has no genetic basis, in my opinion that is. The Bible is history books... and so much more. Let none of us ever make the mistake of trying to pigeonhole it.
Indeed! What is more we don't get a lot of details on what the original creation consisted of that translates into modern scientific language. It does make a couple of things clear though, Adam was independantly created and living creatures reproduce according to 'kinds'.
Grace and peace,
Mark
Edited to add:
Wow! I popped onto AIG and did a Hovind search, they had a whole page devoted to answering K. Hovind by Carl Wieland, Ken Ham and Jonathan Sarfati. I was pretty supprised by the sheer length of it and the number of things they were taking issue with.
__________________ “Gärtner, by the results of these transformation experiments, was led to oppose the opinion of those naturalists who dispute the stability of plant species and believe in a continuous evolution of vegetation. He perceives in the complete transformation of one species into another an indubitable proof that species are fixed with limits beyond which they cannot change.” (G. Mendel)
Last edited by mark kennedy; 3rd June 2005 at 03:15 PM.
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3rd June 2005, 09:37 PM
|  | Shining God's Light for a Lost World.
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Originally Posted by Lenora56 As far as I know, he's not a reverend. Then again, I have accidentally put the wrong title on someone before. Maybe that's the case.
Actually, he's more of a teacher. So.... I'll just call him.... KENT HOVIND. I don't know. I just called him "reverend" because on the DVDs I watched him on, he really broke out into sermon!!! Oh, well -- guess that doesn't make him a reverend. I made a little "boo-boo" -- as the old saying goes: "to err is human!"  |
3rd June 2005, 10:37 PM
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Reps: 2,147 (power: 11) | | Yep! Everybody errs! Originally Posted by WannaWitness Actually, he's more of a teacher. So.... I'll just call him.... KENT HOVIND. I don't know. I just called him "reverend" because on the DVDs I watched him on, he really broke out into sermon!!! Oh, well -- guess that doesn't make him a reverend. I made a little "boo-boo" -- as the old saying goes: "to err is human!" |
3rd June 2005, 11:19 PM
| | Senior Veteran
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Reps: 54,806,534,063,437,296 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by mark kennedy Like I said I know very little about the guy and I actually fell asleep trying to listen to one of his free seminars. It sounds like he is some kind of a Bible school product and that's fine, I just don't know that much about him. Well, it's always a good idea to consider the source. Hovind's pitch sounds good, but he's pretty much discredited. It's really not worth using him as a source when debating evoution... Especially over on the open forums.
Mentioning his name over there is the CF equivalent to putting on a Dunce cap.
Those are pretty serious things to accuse someone of, I have heard some things like that said about creation scientists as well. I may have to track down some of his stuff and get back to you on this. Good idea. Always check for yourself.
I'll have to take your word for that, I never seen him mentioned there and they tend to like professional scientists on those sites. believe me... there's a reason for that.
Well, it took a while but there is nothing in the genetics side of TOE that is inconsistant with a literal reading of Genesis. The Darwinian side is pretty much philosophy and supposition so when people ask me if I believe in TOE I sepearate universal descent from modern genetics. They want you to swallow it whole which is completly uncalled for. Well, like any scientific theory, the facts support the philosophy, and the philosophy explains the facts.
It my one major problem with evolution and I can accept most everything else. I draw the line at independant creation vs. universal descent since universal descent has no genetic basis, in my opinion that is. Well, there's no denying that just about every living thing on the planet is genetically similar (at least a lttle) to every other living thing...but that evidence cuts both ways: Common descent or common design...or both?
Indeed! What is more we don't get a lot of details on what the original creation consisted of that translates into modern scientific language. It does make a couple of things clear though, Adam was independantly created and living creatures reproduce according to 'kinds'.
Grace and peace,
Mark It is clear on that...which is when the whole "literal vs. allegorical" debate begins.
Edited to add:
Wow! I popped onto AIG and did a Hovind search, they had a whole page devoted to answering K. Hovind by Carl Wieland, Ken Ham and Jonathan Sarfati. I was pretty supprised by the sheer length of it and the number of things they were taking issue with. If it's the same page I think it is, ("Maintaining Creationist Integrity") you'll notice that AiG is very careful about its language: They never accuse Hovind of anything directly, but as they take issue with almost everything he claims, it's pretty clear...between the lines anyway... that they consider Hovind either untruthful or incompetent.
And Hovind is certainly not incompetent. |
4th June 2005, 02:48 AM
| | Senior Contributor
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Reps: 685 (power: 0) | | | I remain a OEC. Because I believe that G-d is the Ancient of Days. | | |
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