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Unorthodox Doctrinal Discussion orthodox and unorthodox Christians only - A forum to discuss/debate theological doctrines not accepted by mainstream evangelical Christianity (eg. full preterism, unitarianism).

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  #21  
Unread 26th April 2005, 06:51 PM
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Originally Posted by Doc T
Not all written languages are spoken. Demonic is certainly an example of "reformed" Egyptian. It had nothing to do with the spoken language, but was a reformation, if you will, of the other written forms of the language.

Doc

~
Yeah, "Demonic is cerainly an example of reformed Egyptian".....


<><
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  #22  
Unread 26th April 2005, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Fit4Christ
Ok, so in the interest of saving time and/or space, Reformed Egyptian was used for writing, but no one could speak it, if there is even such a thing as a verbal form of this language?

So, if they were to have read off the plates, they would have read aloud in their own Hebrew, Aramic, or whatever language they spoke? I'm visualizing something similar to reading Japanese or Chinese characters aloud in English. Is this what is believed to have occurred?
That is what I visualize, also.

If, as Jenda suggests, they wrote in Egyptian originally and then it became reformed Egyptian over time, wouldn't they have still been able to speak the orginal Egyptian?
It is my guess that only the scribes used that language, that the rest of the population just understood their "native" language. And, since it is not specifically stated that it was used as a spoken language, I would guess that if the original scribes who left Jerusalem in 600 BC (Lehi, Nephi, Laman, Lemuel) did know how to speak it, that once they left, they would have no reason to use it except for writing, so even in that situation, it would have died out.
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  #23  
Unread 26th April 2005, 07:40 PM
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Another dead horse... Reformed Eqyptian. How many times must we kill the same horses? SEARCH is the friend of those thinking of making a new post.

Now, as has been duly noted many, many times before, the term "Reformed Egyptian" is a term used by an very late writer in The Book of Mormon, who states that it is the language THEY CALL Reformed Egyptian (they meaning the people of his time and place, e.g., approx. 400 A.D., somewhere in the Americas). And he states that it is in this language that they write upon their records, some of which eventually became The Book of Mormon: Another Testament of Jesus Christ.

So what is this language, Reformed Egyptian? It's a long-dead language that a very few, educated inhabitants of the Ancient Americas created, used for writing, and then vanished when said group of inhabitants died... the language dying with them. Thus, you'll find no record of this language today; and just as we are constantly finding unknown languages in various archeological digs across the world, this language remains beneath the sands of time. Save for the plates entrusted to Joseph Smith, which he translated via the power of God from Reformed Egyptian, whatever that language was or looked like, into English.
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  #24  
Unread 26th April 2005, 07:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Fit4Christ
Whilst in the big SLC last week, I stumbled upon the April 14th edition of the Salt Lake City Weekly. I saw the following article:

http://www.slweekly.com/editorial/20...2005-04-14.cfm

The following is from that article:



Now, I realize that whoever this D.P. Sorensen is, his/her column is a satire and the things written about are not necessarily true. But, it got me to thinking that if one were to believe that the Golden Plates are real and were actually written in Reformed Egyptian, then could it be said that that person must also believe there was a Reformed Egyptian spoken language as well??

Any indications, beliefs, comments by leaders (past or present), etc. that this would be true as well?
I beleive Reformed Egyptian is really an alien language that was taught to JS when he met those aliens in the clearing.
  #25  
Unread 26th April 2005, 07:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Darkelf
I beleive Reformed Egyptian is really an alien language that was taught to JS when he met those aliens in the clearing.
Makes about as much sense as much of what I've read in this thread.
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  #26  
Unread 26th April 2005, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by AMMON
Another dead horse... Reformed Eqyptian. How many times must we kill the same horses? SEARCH is the friend of those thinking of making a new post.

Now, as has been duly noted many, many times before, the term "Reformed Egyptian" is a term used by an very late writer in The Book of Mormon, who states that it is the language THEY CALL Reformed Egyptian (they meaning the people of his time and place, e.g., approx. 400 A.D., somewhere in the Americas).
Cop out time. It wasn't really "Reformed Egyptian," it didn't really have any relationship to anything remotely Egyptian, it was only "called" that by this late writer of the BOM. I wonder why a descendant of Jews would invent a language and call it "reformed Egyptian," which would surely constantly remind them of the 400 years of bitter slavery in Egypt?

I'm not sure but I think this "reformed Egyptian," was supposedly also written in Israel about 600 b.c., [added] that is according to the BOM, not authentic ANE or Biblical history.
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Last edited by Der Alter; 26th April 2005 at 09:47 PM. Reason: To clarify a point
  #27  
Unread 26th April 2005, 09:43 PM
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Originally Posted by Der Alter

I'm not sure but I think this "reformed Egyptian," was supposedly also written in Israel about 600 b.c.
HI there!




There's absolutely NO evidence of "reformed Egyptian" in Israel about 600 B.C.... as thought the Assyrians and Babylonians would was to keep "reformed Egyptian" around... they tried to eliminate Hebrew by forcing all the people to learn new languages.

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  #28  
Unread 26th April 2005, 09:59 PM
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Originally Posted by AMMON
So what is this language, Reformed Egyptian? It's a long-dead language that a very few, educated inhabitants of the Ancient Americas created, used for writing, and then vanished when said group of inhabitants died... the language dying with them. Thus, you'll find no record of this language today; and just as we are constantly finding unknown languages in various archeological digs across the world, this language remains beneath the sands of time. Save for the plates entrusted to Joseph Smith, which he translated via the power of God from Reformed Egyptian, whatever that language was or looked like, into English.

Hi Ammon,



Well, I thought that the symbol for a particular mormon forum included a symbol from "reformed Egyptian"... but when I went to view it.... I found that I was mistaken... but it is interesting reading concerning their symbol.



The Hebrew "aleph" in the upper left corner and the Greek "omega" in the lower right are the first and last letters of the Hebrew and Greek alphabets, standing for "the first and the last" (Isaiah 48:12), who is Jesus Christ.

The Mayan glyph in the upper right is stylized, representing Mesoamerican studies.

The Egyptian "Wd3t eye" in the lower left, the eye of the sun god Re, was an ancient symbol of resurrection, recounting how the eye was torn into pieces and put back together. It also has a connection with the Book of Mormon, since the "pieces" of this eye were used by the Egyptians as binary fractional mathematical symbols for their grain measures, reminiscent of the weights and measures of the Nephites in Alma 11. The round pupil of the eye was also used by the Egyptians as the round outline of the hypocephali used in burials, of which Facsimile 2 in the book of Abraham is an example.
Yeah... I see the relationship between an Egyptian symbol of the eye of the sun god and the book of mormon....



and just as we are constantly finding unknown languages in various archeological digs across the world, this language remains beneath the sands of time.

Where does the "we" come into the discussion? I actually dig... so if I say "we" --there will be a reference to who was digging. So, who is the "we" here?

~serapha~
  #29  
Unread 26th April 2005, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by AMMON
So what is this language, Reformed Egyptian? It's a long-dead language that a very few, educated inhabitants of the Ancient Americas created, used for writing, and then vanished when said group of inhabitants died... the language dying with them. Thus, you'll find no record of this language today; and just as we are constantly finding unknown languages in various archeological digs across the world, this language remains beneath the sands of time. Save for the plates entrusted to Joseph Smith, which he translated via the power of God from Reformed Egyptian, whatever that language was or looked like, into English.
This is not entirely forthright, even a bit disingenuous. We do know what some of the "reformed Egyptian," looked like from the copied sample that Joseph sent to Professor Anton.





The Church Section of the Mormon newspaper, Deseret News, May 3, 1980.
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  #30  
Unread 26th April 2005, 11:26 PM
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ROFLMBO

Oh, please. Nothing found by Mark Hoffman was authentic. So, we don't know what they looked like.

Didn't you ever read the book "Salamander: Story of the Mormon Forgery Murders"?
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