Please forgive me, I’m not clear about the point you are trying to make. But if your point was, since most children enjoy the faith, without understanding the details of the faith and could form good relations with other churches because of their lack of knowledge, then my response is: If you had a parent or a priest who is teaching you that anyone who is Eastern Orthodox is heretical, then it will damage future relations with the Eastern Orthodox Church. Likewise, if Eastern Orthodox people are teaching each other that Oriental Orthodox are heretical then it will damage future relations with Oriental Orthodox people.
What’s even worse the word “heretical” is thrown at the Oriental Church because some people in the Eastern Orthodox haven’t studied in detail what Monophysitism is about. If they have studied it well, they would never say that about the Oriental Orthodox Church. Just like we would never degrade the Eastern Orthodox Church by labeling them heretical or have pagan practices because they are diophysite and have what appears on the outside teachings similar to Nestorianism.
To Xpycoctomos (John):
The term used by Mina when he said “act like the Pharisee”, is about how a Pharisee thinks. A Pharisee thinks that they have understood everything and no one can communicate or explain anything to them because they already have the “correct” understanding about everything in their opinion. To truly understand anything, you must read well the subject in great detail and look beyond the biases. I ask you John, was it very fair and “holy” when they labeled Oriental Orthodox people as heretical and have pagan practices in the thread called “Coptic Tattoos” in the EO forum? Was it very fair and holy when they said that because the Oriental Orthodox are heretical, efforts of unity should not resume? Was it very fair or holy when they didn’t allow the Coptic Orthodox to clarify their position??? What do you think we felt when they said that? It hurt us beyond any words to see this coming from our dearly loved brothers and sisters. Jesus says, “Assuredly, I say to you, inasmuch as you did it to one of the least of these My brethren, you did it to Me.” (Matthew 25: 40) May we not wound each other like this, because when we hurt each other, we are hurting the heart of Jesus. In Jesus’ eyes we are all his precious Children, whether we are Eastern Orthodox, Oriental, Catholic or protestant.
Please forgive me Yeznik and John, I know my weaknesses are great and the sins of my tongue are many, but I have not recovered from the hurt yet. Please pray for me a sinner and I pray that God may bring understanding, wisdom, the spirit of discernment, His peace and love to all our hearts.
Love and blessings
erini
What I am saying is sometime people lose focus in what binds us as Christians.
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Լո'յս ճշմարիտ Քրիստոս, արժանաւորեա' զհոգի իմ` ուրախութեամբ տեսանել զլոյս փառաց քոց ի կոչման աւուրն եւ հանգչել յուսով բարեաց յօթեվանս արդարոց,մինչեւ յօր մեծի գալստեան քո, ողորմեա' քո արարածոց եւ ինձ` բազմամեղիս:
Last edited by Yeznik; 29th April 2005 at 03:04 AM.
Reason: typo
hello everyone. i'm not coptic or even eastern orthodox, after seeing the tattoo thing, i hope i'm welcome to post here, lol
i'm kind of confused here what is being argued over with long posts here. i mean i understand the one poster mentioned about her irritation of being called monophysites and she gave sufficent proof for her irritation, that is fine. these terms and meanings behind it, is still new to me. i'm researching about Orthodoxy. i'm loving how this is challenging my Evangelistic/Protestant mindset, so in time, i will know more and predict my conversion over. but, i am still confused on what the long posts are trying to defend? pardon my ignorance here and hey if this is a way to know about Orthodoxy, send me loads of info hehe May God Bless you all! <><
__________________ “I've eaten things that didn't complain this much.”-Denis Leary
"Once you realize what a joke everything is, being the Comedian is the only thing that makes sense."-Edward Blake-The Comedian in The Watchmen
hello everyone. i'm not coptic or even eastern orthodox, after seeing the tattoo thing, i hope i'm welcome to post here, lol
i'm kind of confused here what is being argued over with long posts here. i mean i understand the one poster mentioned about her irritation of being called monophysites and she gave sufficent proof for her irritation, that is fine. these terms and meanings behind it, is still new to me. i'm researching about Orthodoxy. i'm loving how this is challenging my Evangelistic/Protestant mindset, so in time, i will know more and predict my conversion over. but, i am still confused on what the long posts are trying to defend? pardon my ignorance here and hey if this is a way to know about Orthodoxy, send me loads of info hehe May God Bless you all! <><
Of course you are welcome here!!
So what exactly are you confused about?
I guess to sum up what is being argued is that some of the EO's think we are heretics because of the way we describe Christ's nature. They say it is incorrect to say he has one combined nature. Furthermore, some of them accuse us of following the teachings that brought up this heresy in the 5th Century--which of course is just ridiculous because we in fact excommunicated the man who started that heresy. That man taught that Christ was only divine and we clearly do not teach or believe that.
The way I see it, they can disagree with our definition as much as they like, BUT I do not want them saying we believe things that we don't.
I mean one person was trying to argue with me about what my church believes. I have been part of my church since birth, know it very very well, my grandfather was a priest, my 3 brothers are deacons, and two of them teach at the church...and I can provide a zillion sources that state what we believe. Why this person things he knows what I believe better than me? Who knows.
Please, as always feel free to ask any questions that come to mind.
God Bless,
Elizabeth
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i'm researching about Orthodoxy. i'm loving how this is challenging my Evangelistic/Protestant mindset, so in time, i will know more and predict my conversion over.
One more thing. If you are interesting in learning more about the Orthodox Church, there is this book, Becoming Orthodox that is about the conversion of 2000 Evangelicals to Orthodoxy. While I would always recommend the Coptic Orthodox Church, this group converted to the Antiochian Orthodox Church. Nevertheless, they converted to an Orthodox Church and the book is VERY interested, and easy to read.
God Bless,
Elizabeth
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I guess to sum up what is being argued is that some of the EO's think we are heretics because of the way we describe Christ's nature. They say it is incorrect to say he has one combined nature. Furthermore, some of them accuse us of following the teachings that brought up this heresy in the 5th Century--which of course is just ridiculous because we in fact excommunicated the man who started that heresy. That man taught that Christ was only divine and we clearly do not teach or believe that.
The way I see it, they can disagree with our definition as much as they like, BUT I do not want them saying we believe things that we don't.
I mean one person was trying to argue with me about what my church believes. I have been part of my church since birth, know it very very well, my grandfather was a priest, my 3 brothers are deacons, and two of them teach at the church...and I can provide a zillion sources that state what we believe. Why this person things he knows what I believe better than me? Who knows.
Please, as always feel free to ask any questions that come to mind.
God Bless,
Elizabeth
I apologize on behalf of my EO brothers and sisters who continue to deride your venerable Church. Your Tradition has produced many wonderful saints, and have indeed stayed true to St Cyril's definition. I'm a big fan of the Alexandrians myself. We pray for reconciliation between our Churches. May it happen in our lifetime. I would love to concelebrate with our Coptic brothers and sisters.
I apologize on behalf of my EO brothers and sisters who continue to deride your venerable Church. Your Tradition has produced many wonderful saints, and have indeed stayed true to St Cyril's definition. I'm a big fan of the Alexandrians myself. We pray for reconciliation between our Churches. May it happen in our lifetime. I would love to concelebrate with our Coptic brothers and sisters.
God bless,
padraig
Thank you for your kind words. I too respect and love my Eastern Orthodox brothers and sisters. I do pray that we are reconciled. I just think it would be so wonderful. Its crazy how many divisions there are in Christianity. And its crazy how similar we are and how long we have been seperated.
May God Bless us all and guide us all.
God Bless,
Elizabeth
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Over the holy week, if you were careful in reading the prayers and doxologies, you would always see a repetition of the phrase "uniting His divinity to His humanity without change." This was written WAY before we had talks with EO's. It's ignorance to those who don't do just a little more professional research to find out inconsistency with their "terminological" defenses.
I apologize on behalf of my EO brothers and sisters who continue to deride your venerable Church. Your Tradition has produced many wonderful saints, and have indeed stayed true to St Cyril's definition. I'm a big fan of the Alexandrians myself. We pray for reconciliation between our Churches. May it happen in our lifetime. I would love to concelebrate with our Coptic brothers and sisters.
It's really nice of you to say that....how great it is to see God's love in your heart. Most people don't even know who St. Cyril is and I will give a brief introduction to who he is.
St. Cyril is the 24th Patriarch of the Coptic Orthodox Church after St. Mark in the 5th Century.
"St. Cyril the Great is the hero of faith against the Nestorians. He exposed the heresy of Nestorius who was the Patriarch of Constantinople the Capital of the Eastern Roman Empire. St. Cyril explained to him the faith, but as he disobeyed and continued in his heresy, St. Cyril wrote against him twelve Anathemas which have become part of the Church Laws. Nestorius was then ex-communicated by the Ecumenical Council of Ephesus which was convened in 431 AD and headed by St. Cyril of Alexandria." http://www.copticcentre.com/article18.html
Here is a brief description of the Nestorian Heresy:
"According to the Nestorian concept, Christ was two separate persons, the one divine and beyond the reach of human frailty, and the other human and susceptible to all the fragility of the flesh. The divine Christ could neither suffer or die, and therefore, on the Cross it was the human Christ alone who suffered and died apart from the divine Christ. Nestorius had spoken out against calling the blessed Virgin Mary the 'Theotokos''.....Abba Cyril strongly contested these views expounding the Orthodox doctrine of the indivisible union of the divine and human natures of Christ, and arguing that if Jesus Christ is God, it follows that his mother is the ``Mother-of-God'' who bore Him forever. This is what the Apostles taught us and the doctrine of our Fathers. .......Just as Saint Athanasius had saved the Faith concerning the Logos in the Nicene Creed, so did Saint Cyril in defending the Theotokos maintaining the Orthodox Doctrine concerning the incarnation of the Logos in the Introduction to the Creed which he wrote in this regard.'' http://www.copticchurch.net/topics/s...on/cyril1.html
love and blessings erini
Last edited by erinipassi; 2nd May 2005 at 05:09 AM.
It's really nice of you to say that....how great it is to see God's love in your heart. Most people don't even know who St. Cyril is
Rest assured, St Cyril is very well respected by the Orthodox in this country, at least at the seminary level. And by all who want a truly wonderful insight into Scripture. I've always preferred the Alexandrian school of scriptural exegesis over the Antiochian. Of course I also really like Origen's commentary and Philo of Alexandria. What wonderful insight these great men of God possessed. If only we could follow that example.
this group converted to the Antiochian Orthodox Church. Nevertheless, they converted to an Orthodox Church and the book is VERY interested, and easy to read.
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