Tithing

Willo · #1 18th April 2005, 10:45 AM

G'day,

I have found out that those that hold to WOF doctrine believe in tithing.

But I was wondering, if the Law was fulfilled and ceased with Christ on the cross, why do we tithe?

The OT tithe was the first fruits, literal.

NT doesn't say about tithing.

Whats your take?

Wigglesworth · #2 18th April 2005, 04:49 PM

Tithing took place before the law, during the administration of the Levitical law, and continues after the fulfillment of the law. Abel tithed, which was before the law.

Jesus said, "How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest part of your income, but you ignore the important things of the law – justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but you should not leave undone the more important things." Matthew 23:23 (NLT).

Jesus probably didn't say, "You should stop tithing, and just show more love." I also wouldn't buy the argument that nonJewish people are not required to tithe.

The promised blessings of God are not erased by the crucifixion. The passage about tithing I like the most is Malachi.

"'Bring all the tithes into the storehouse so there will be enough food in my Temple. If you do,' says the LORD Almighty, 'I will open the windows of heaven for you. I will pour out a blessing so great you won't have enough room to take it in! Try it! Let me prove it to you!" Malachi 3:10 (NLT).

If we have a better covenant than the one under which this promise was made, we should expect God to treat us at least as well as Malachi.

godson777 · #3 18th April 2005, 10:17 PM

Tithing

G'day,
I have found out that those that hold to WOF doctrine believe in tithing.
But I was wondering, if the Law was fulfilled and ceased with Christ on the cross, why do we tithe?
The OT tithe was the first fruits, literal.
NT doesn't say about tithing.
Whats your take?

I agree with you. I have studied tithing and financial giving in the new covennt believer's life in detail, and i have come to the conclusion that new covenant Christians are not required to tithe.

Tithing took place before the law, during the administration of the Levitical law, and continues after the fulfillment of the law. Abel tithed, which was before the law.

Nowhere does the bible ever say that Abel tithed. God wasn't pleased with Abel's offering because it was a tithe, He was pleased with it because it was a generous, sacirificial firstfruits offering to God. Abel gave God his best, whilst Cain gave God the leftovers. God does not want us to give a strict, legalistic certain amount, He wants us to give Him our best! (which in most cases is more than 10%).

It is true that tithing was part of the Law of Moses, but these commandments to tithe (in the Law of Moses) were fulfilled by Jesus and abolished at the cross. The following verse prove that all the Law of Moses commandments, including the commandments to bring the three tithes have been abolished.

For sin shall not be your master, because you are not under law, but under grace. (Romans 6:14)

But now, by dying to what once bound us, we have been released from the law so that we serve in the new way of the Spirit, and not in the old way of the written code. (Romans 7:6)

Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. (Romans 10:4)

know that a man is not justified by observing the law, but by faith in Jesus Christ. So we, too, have put our faith in Christ Jesus that we may be justified by faith in Christ and not by observing the law, because by observing the law no one will be justified. (Galatians 2:16)

Clearly no one is justified before God by the law, because, “The righteous will live by faith.” (Galatians 3:11)

So the law was put in charge to lead us to Christ [ Or charge until Christ came] that we might be justified by faith. (Galatians 3:24)

So Christ has really set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don't get tied up again in slavery to the law. (Galatians 5:1 NLT)

The former regulation [the Law of Moses] is set aside because it was weak and useless (for the law made nothing perfect), and a better hope is introduced, by which we draw near to God. (Hebrews 7:18-19)

But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far away have been brought near through the blood of Christ. For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, (Ephesians 2:13-15)

When you were dead in your sins and in the uncircumcision of your sinful nature, God made you alive with Christ. He forgave us all our sins, having canceled the written code, with its regulations, that was against us and that stood opposed to us; he took it away, nailing it to the cross. (Colossians 2:13-14)

Tithing as it is preached today was never practiced before the Law of Moses.

ABRAHAMS TITHE:

Prior to the law of Moses Abraham brought a tithe of the spoils to Melkezidek (sp?). This has no bearing on Christian tithing for a number of reasons:

Probably the biggest reason why Abraham’s tithe should have no effect on Christian giving is that Abraham wasn’t tithing from His personal wealth. Genesis 14:17-20 just told us that Abraham was returning from war when He tithed to Melchizedek. Hebrews 7:4 says: Just think how great he (Melchizedek) was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the plunder! Abraham wasn’t giving from his own wealth; he was giving from the plunder! Incase you don’t know what a plunder is; it is the wealth and possessions you take from your enemy when you defeat them at war. If Abraham tithed from the harvest of his fields, or the increase in His livestock, then perhaps that would be more of a reason for Christians to tithe. However, Abraham was not giving from his personal wealth; he was giving from the spoils of war. Since Abraham wasn’t giving from His own increase, or His own wealth we have little reason to assume that we are supposed to follow this example.
Nowhere in either Genesis or Hebrews (where this tithe is discussed), do we hear of God commanding Abraham to tithe to Melchizedek. Infact, there is a large amount of evidence to suggest that Abraham was doing what was merely a custom of his day. Here is what a number of books have to say about the history of tithing from the spoils of war:

"In the same manner the Greeks too, the Carthaginians, and the Romans devoted a tenth portion of the spoils of war to their deities." (On the Acquisition of Territory and Property by Right of Conquest, emphasis added)

"The Greek League against Persia, founded in 481 vows a tenth of the spoils of war to the shrine (7:132), and this happens, after Salamis and Plataea." (Herodotus on Greek Religion, emphasis added)

"For his courageous role in helping to take the Volscian town of Corioli, Caius Marcius, declining to accept one-tenth of the spoils, was named Coriolanus" (Roman Expansion to 133 BC, emphasis added)

There are also a number of other books that prove that tithing from the spoils was a custom of Abraham's day. God did not command Abraham to tithe, He was doing a custom of His day.

3. Nowhere throughout the entire bible, do we here of Abraham tithing a second time in his life. If Abraham was establishing an eternal principle of tithing for those in the kingdom of God to follow, you’d think that he would continue to obey his own principle. You would think that he would tithe a second, third, fourth, fifth time etc etc. However, there is no record of Abraham ever tithing again.

JACOBS VOW:

Jacob’s vow is the only other example of tithing outside of the Law of Moses. Genesis 28:20-22 says: Then Jacob made a vow, saying, "If God will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear so that I return safely to my father's house, then the LORD will be my God and this stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God's house, and of all that you give me I will give you a tenth." Jacob decided personally in his own heart how much he wanted to give. God didn’t command Jacob to tithe; Jacob decided in his own heart that he wanted to give ten percent. If this example of tithing is anything for us to follow all it would suggest we do is honour God with our wealth, and keep in mind that is us who decide how much to give. Once again, Jacob’s vow has no bearing on Christian giving.

Jesus said, "How terrible it will be for you teachers of religious law and you Pharisees. Hypocrites! For you are careful to tithe even the tiniest part of your income, but you ignore the important things of the law – justice, mercy, and faith. You should tithe, yes, but you should not leave undone the more important things." Matthew 23:23 (NLT).

Jesus probably didn't say, "You should stop tithing, and just show more love." I also wouldn't buy the argument that nonJewish people are not required to tithe.

Notice that Jesus had not been crucified yet, so the Law was still in place at this time. Jesus was right in telling them to tithe, because they should have continued tithing right up until the Law was abolished at the cross, because only then was the commandment to tithe abolished. now that Jesus has been crucified, the Law to tithe which He was speaking of here, has been abolished.

The promised blessings of God are not erased by the crucifixion. The passage about tithing I like the most is Malachi.

"'Bring all the tithes into the storehouse so there will be enough food in my Temple. If you do,' says the LORD Almighty, 'I will open the windows of heaven for you. I will pour out a blessing so great you won't have enough room to take it in! Try it! Let me prove it to you!" Malachi 3:10 (NLT).

If we have a better covenant than the one under which this promise was made, we should expect God to treat us at least as well as Malachi.

Firstly, Malachi 3 was written to people who were supposed to be living under the Law of Moses, because the priests were breaking the Law of Moses, by Malachi who was living under the Law of Moses, during a time when the Law of Moses was still in action. Now that Jesus has been crucifed the Law of Moses has been cancelled and abolished. Therefore the Malachi 3 commandment to tithe, which was based upon the Law has been abolished.

Secondly, God's promise of prosperity is still in action for us today, except its not based upon tithing... It's based upon sowing generous seed! 2 Corinthians 9:6 says: Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. God no longer cares about legalistic tithes, He cares about the generosity of your heart. As you are generous and honour God with your wealth, God promises to prosper you beyound measure!

godson777 · #4 18th April 2005, 10:17 PM

THE NEW COVENANT FORM OF GIVING:

Firstly, there is no new covenant commandment to give anything at all!

2 Corinthians 8:7-8 NLT says: Since you excel in so many ways--you have so much faith, such gifted speakers, such knowledge, such enthusiasm, and such love for us--now I want you to excel also in this gracious ministry of giving. I am not saying you must do it, even though the other churches are eager to do it. This is one way to prove your love is real. There is no new covenant commandment to give anything at all! However, that does not mean that we are free to give nothing. There are a number of reasons why we should give generously!

You will reap what you sow! (Gal 6:7) If you want to be poor (or have to become wealthy out of your own strength), then just sow nothing. But if you want God to bless and prosper you, you will need to sow generously! (2 Cor 9:6)
If you don't give anything then you are very selfish and obviously do not have a revelation of the impact that your finance can have on other people's lives. Be generous because you are blessed to be a blessing.

There are five main Characteristics of New Covenant giving:

Your giving should be:

Generous (2 Cor 9:6 etc etc etc)
Consistent (1 Cor 16:2 & Phil 4:16)
Sacrificial (1 Chronicles 1:23-24, The widow in Mark 12, the Macedonian church in 2 Corinthians 8)
Give with a Cheerful, glad attitude (2 Corinthians 9:7)
You should give secretly and not boast about your giving (Matthew 6:1-4)

Maharg · #5 19th April 2005, 07:34 AM

Thank you godson777,

Your explanation has really blessed me. I have been praying about this for a while. Thank you for your very clear explanations.

I agreed with almost everything you wrote. There is just one thing I have a query over and I wonder if your could help with it. There is a passage in in the Bible that states that Jesus did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfil it and I wondered how this fitted in with the idea of our not being under a Law. Is it to do with our behaving as the Law dictates simply through believing and having faith in Christ? I hope that you'll be able to help me out with this.

Matthew 5

17“Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Many thanks,

Maharg

godson777 · #6 19th April 2005, 08:07 AM

Thank you godson777,

Your explanation has really blessed me. I have been praying about this for a while. Thank you for your very clear explanations.

I agreed with almost everything you wrote. There is just one thing I have a query over and I wonder if your could help with it. There is a passage in in the Bible that states that Jesus did not come to abolish the Law but to fulfil it and I wondered how this fitted in with the idea of our not being under a Law. Is it to do with our behaving as the Law dictates simply through believing and having faith in Christ? I hope that you'll be able to help me out with this.

Sure Maharg! Hope this helps!...

A common objection that people have to the idea that the law has been abolished is what was written in Matthew 5:17-18. In these verses Jesus says: "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. Some people interpret this to be saying that the Law of Moses will not be abolished until the end of the world comes. However, if you interpret these verses that way, you end up with a total contradiction between these verses, and the previously listed verses [in my previous posts] that prove that the law was abolished at the cross. There can only be one truth in the Word of God, and from studying the Greek words for abolish and fulfill I have realised that we are actually misinterpreting these verses from Matthew. The Greek word for ‘abolish’ in the verse is the word ‘kataluso’ which means: to demolish, dissolve, destroy. The Greek word for ‘fulfill’ in this verse is the word ‘pleroo’ which means: to fill out, complete, make perfect, accomplish an end. Therefore, what Jesus is saying in these verses (and I will paraphrase) is: “Look everyone, don’t think that I have come to scrap the law and say that it’s just too hard so don’t worry about doing it anymore; I have come to live under it without sinning and by doing this I will fulfill the law and bring a proper end to the law for all people, so that people can be saved by faith and not observance of the law.” When Jesus said that not the least stroke of a pen will disappear from the law until everything is accomplished, he was talking about all that He was called to do in His life (including living under the law without breaking it). That is why Jesus’ dying breath on the cross was “It is finished” (Jn 19:30), because he had finished all he came to do, which included living under and bringing an end to the law.

Hope this helps Maharg!
God bless you as you study His word!

Maharg · #7 19th April 2005, 09:54 AM

Hope this helps Maharg!
God bless you as you study His word!

Hi Godson777,

Yes, it helps tremendously, thank you, and has helped with my quest for understanding the meaning of the cross too. Many thanks for blessing my studies.

Bless you,

Maharg

Antman_05 · #8 23rd April 2005, 02:18 AM

Churches should rather teach on Offering, than Tithing. I do think we should teach the ppl of the Church to give, as money is part of our life even if we don't want it to be. And we are ment to give God all of our selfs.

akasmom · #9 23rd April 2005, 06:56 PM

The problem I have with tithing as it is often taught in WoF circles is it becomes an if/then proposition.
If you tithe, then you'll be blessed. If you give 10% of your increase, then the windows of heaven will be opened. If you bring your firstfruits into the temple, then your vats and barns will be full. If you sow generously, then you will reap. Where in this equation is grace? Are Gods promises yes and amen because He is faithful and just or because we worked to do the right thing and He's rewarding us? I understand and don't question the reaping/sowing, but what we should be sowing is generosity, compassion, mercy, sometimes (but not always) in the form of helping people who are less materially well off than us. Doing this brings thanksgiving and glory to God. To tithe because our teachers say so or it says so in Malachi or whatever is fruitless. To want to honor God and show your trust in His willingness & ability to take care of you by helping Him take care of others (especially those of the household of faith) is fruitful.
It is wrong to tithe and expect blessing because it makes your giving into a business transaction. It is right to expect blessing because God said when you are willing and obedient, He will bless you.

Andrew · #10 23rd April 2005, 08:23 PM

Originally Posted by Willo

G'day,

I have found out that those that hold to WOF doctrine believe in tithing.

But I was wondering, if the Law was fulfilled and ceased with Christ on the cross, why do we tithe?

The OT tithe was the first fruits, literal.

NT doesn't say about tithing.

Whats your take?

You are right that the Law has been fulfilled and that we are no longer under the Law of tithing.

So when Christians (WOF or others) talk about tithing today, they are not talking about the tithing law. So forget that.

As mentioned by another poster, tithing started hundreds of years before the law. Abraham tithed. His grandson Jacob also tithed. And many like me, believe that Isaac (Abraham's son) also tithed. i.e. he learned it from his father Abraham,and therefore Jacob learned it from his father Isaac.

Gen 14:18
18Then Melchizedek king of Salem brought out bread and wine; he was the priest of God Most High. 19And he blessed him and said:
"Blessed be Abram of God Most High,
Possessor of heaven and earth;
20And blessed be God Most High,
Who has delivered your enemies into your hand."
And he gave him a tithe of all.

Melchizedek according to Hebrews, means King of Righteousness. He's also the King of Peace (Salem). So, Abraham actually met the pre-incarnate Jesus and he tithed to Jesus. Notice it is a Jesus of grace not law becos of His titles King of Righteousness and Peace. Abraham also existed 400+ years before the law was given.

The first thing Jesus did was to bless Abraham. He did not order Abraham to tithe. Then, out of gratitude (Abraham also attributed his war victory to God), Abraham tithed a tenth of all he had. So, its grace shown first, then tithing out of gratitude. Today we tithe becos we know how much God loves us and has given/provided us. Not becos of some law or church rule. We acknowledge that He is the source of all our blessings thru the tithe.

Gen 28:
20Then Jacob made a vow, saying, "If God will be with me, and keep me in this way that I am going, and give me bread to eat and clothing to put on, 21so that I come back to my father's house in peace, then the LORD shall be my God. 22And this stone which I have set as a pillar shall be God's house, and of all that You give me I will surely give a tenth to You."

Here you see Abraham's grandson Jacob making a vow to tithe and whatever God gives him. Now, I don't think God only blessed him one time in his life. ie whenever he was blessed, he would tithe. Some people argue that Abraham and Jacob tithed only one time -- a one-off thing. But if you believe God will only bless you one time in your life, then tithe at least one time!

Notice again in Jacob's case there was no law. Jacob was first blessed, then out of gratitude, he tithed. We tithed becos we are blessed not becos of law.

So, forget the law when you talk about tithing. It's not law anymore, it's grace-based.

Some argue that these people tithed only cattle and grain. That's a silly argument becos its like saying the Bible didn't say US dollar so it's not for today. Well, the Bible didn't say radio or TV or Internet either, so does that mean we can't preach thru these means? Also, Abraham was rich in "silver and gold" not just cattle.