EU REFERENDUM

What is wrong with humanism exactly? I would say its considerably better than anything founded on religious beliefs, what with their opposition of equal rights for gays, opposition to personal decisions regarding Euthanasia and abortion etc.

I will be voting for the constitution, because it seems that when it comes to public services, transport, etc, Britain could learn some serious lessons from continental Europe. Actually, a one world government based upon the principles of fairness and equality sounds appealing in the long term.

come on! you're on a Christian forum here!
i don't expect you to agree of course but i would expect you to understand the concept of absolute truth and right/wrong as described in the Bible, and how that impacts on a Christian's worldview.
(of course i cant claim to represent everyone who calls themselves Christian with this, my comments are based on a fairly conservative approach but beleive me not as fundamentalist as some i have encountered)

I would probably vote against it. I'm all for closer ties with Europe but constitutions scare me. Look at America - I think they sometimes treat their constitution like the Bible. Pro-gun campaigners harp on about the 2nd (?) amendment giving the right to bear arms, as if anything that's in the constitution must be right just because it's in there.

Well I am very pro EU. In the modern world with increasing globalisation and American cultural and economic hegemony it is already becoming increasingly hard for individual states to compete financialy and economicaly. If we do not accept the Euro we will suffer for it fiscaly, infact we alreday are doing. What corporation in its right mind is going to open itself to the vagaries of the excachange rate by opening plants in the UK when they can gain a degree of protection from it by opening plants in nations with a currency that covers such a large geographical area.

The exchange rate can cripple unwary companies, as it can mean that accepting a comission from abroad is a risk, by the time the payments exchange hands the value can have alterd signifigantly.

Beyond the economic consequences there are other issues around joining the EU. I hear people making the claim about Brussels "Laying down the law" a lot, but if you actualy look into it you quickly discover that a lot of the supposed "Laws" they lay down are not leggaly binding, the British tabloids just like to make it seem that way, it sells more papers don't you know.

Increasingly the Nation State is becoming an outmoded concept, unable to compete economicaly or even controll it borders properly. national identities are under seige from increasing American cultural homoginisation anyway so complaining we will lose our identity by joining the EU is a hollow argument. Actualy what we tend to see is that states with closer links to the EU are more resistant to the erossion of national identity not less.

All that said, I am always suspicious of constitutions, whilst they are intended to make certain rights and freedomes inaliable you oftne see countried with a written constitution errodes its citizens rights. The mind set chances form "Anything is legal unless otherwise stated" to "If its not in the constitution then its not a right".

Either way i am extremely displeased that this is going to a referendum. The majority of people in the country are not political scientists, social scientists or economists, they are ordinary people with ordinary fears and an awfull lot of other things occupying there time. By taking it to a referendum this issue will not be decided by people with a good grounding in what to expecte the consiquences to be, it will be decided by people who don't realy know what the consequences can be. And daily sport readers. Do we realy whant daily sport readers deciding anything of importance? (shudders).

Ghost

i like Michael Howards view of "Countries have constitutions and we don't want to be part of a country called Europe".

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Agreed Steve,
I don't think that we should be part of the "United States of Europe."
My personal feeling is that this referendum will swing towards no to Europe, but remember that Dear Leader will keep trying until he gets his own way.

He will always try and do that. I don't like Tony Blair. And anyone else involved in removing the socialist clause from the Labour Party...

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This is completley irrelevant to the debate, but when England were playing Argentina a while ago, apparently sales of Argentinian wine went up about 400% in Scotland a couple of days before the match. Just found it quite interesting.

On the issue of EU constitution, i'm delivering a firm and resounding no vote.

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At least it might be big enough so we don't get pushed around by a "country" like the US.

I will vote for. We won't loose our identity, the Scotts and Welch haven't lost their identity in the UK and there is no reason why they should in Europe. Does England even have a national identity? I'm all for a United Europe to prevent any further European war. Wars cost lots of money and are no fun.

You can look at it as us being run by Brussels or, that the British will be running Europe from Brussels.

We should have the Euro to save us from having to do useless currency conversions. More importantly, to enable easy price comparisons across Europe and to put an end to the 'Rip Off Britain' bonanza, that the international corporations currently have. Britain is refered to as the 'Golden Isle' because of the vast profits they make here.




As for the Scotts hating the English. That's what I've been told on many occasions from friends and familly that visit north of the border. It's simillar to large proportions of the North of England having an intense dislike for people from south of the Wattford Gap and especially from London.


Edit: Oh, and as a member of The United States of Europe' the British people will no longer be subjects of the monarchy, thereby helping to break the absurd Britich class structure.