| Creation & Evolution Forum for the discussion of this important topic. This forum is open to non-believers. There is a Christians-only forum in the Christians-only section too. |
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13th April 2005, 10:23 PM
|  | Senior Veteran
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 | | Join Date: 3rd July 2004 Location: Deep in the heart of the Bible belt
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Reps: 740,063,552 (power: 740,075) | | | Demski admits Intelligent Design is a religious position
Although he apparently didn't mean to. "Even many Christians who have been raised and indoctrinated in a secular mindset ... will say, 'Look, we're just going to have to accept the science of the day and try to make our peace with it theologically. And there is no peace theologically ... ultimately with this view. ...Christians must be prepared to combat the naturalistic worldview in every arena of life," http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=20574
Then he also went on about how evolution is so weak that it shouldn't be taught at all, and that it couldn't explain biodiversity the way I know it can. I ought to debate this guy. I could open with the arguement that the universe is far too complex for anyone or anything to have designed every bit of it. 
So Demski admits that he doesn't give a whit about material evidence. Because that, like every other aspect of science, is based on naturalism. And he's not providing any scientific evidence either against evolution, or for Intelligent Design either. He's only waging a religious protest to allow supernatural explanations [magic fables] to replace demonstrable, testable, measurable things that can verified to be true or proven not to be. In other words, he wants to be able to make up whatever he likes without having to subject that to the scientific method.
They said Intelligent Design was only "thinly-desguised creationism", and Demski just took the mask off. There's no attempt to disguise it anymore. It is religion, and that's all it ever was.
__________________
"To see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." --Benjamin Franklin
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." --Frederich Nietzche`
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." --Mark Twain
"Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding," --Reverend Martin Luther |
13th April 2005, 10:27 PM
|  | PeteAce - In memory of WinAce
33 
| | Join Date: 30th June 2002
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Reps: 9,311,669,886,675,212 (power: 9,311,669,886,693) | | As the data supporting intelligent design increases, some members of the secular scientific community have changed their minds and considered the possibility of an intelligent designer for the first time, Dembski said, noting that several researchers from major universities have contacted him and expressed a desire to conduct intelligent design research.
ID has supporting data? What? Where? I'd love to see it.
__________________
Creationism has not made a single contribution to agriculture, medicine, conservation, forestry, pathology, or any other applied area of biology. Creationism has yielded no classifications, no biogeographies, no underlying mechanisms, no unifying concepts with which to study organisms or life. - Botanical Society of America's Statement on Evolution |
13th April 2005, 10:47 PM
| | Senior Veteran
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| | Join Date: 3rd July 2004 Location: Deep in the heart of the Bible belt
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Reps: 740,063,552 (power: 740,075) | | Originally Posted by Pete Harcoff ID has supporting data? What? Where? I'd love to see it.
And you will! All you've got to do is close your eyes and believe!
Just remember to keep your eyes closed though. He can't show you anything otherwise.
__________________
"To see by faith is to shut the eye of reason." --Benjamin Franklin
"Faith means not wanting to know what is true." --Frederich Nietzche`
"Faith is believing what you know ain't so." --Mark Twain
"Faith must trample under foot all reason, sense, and understanding," --Reverend Martin Luther |
13th April 2005, 10:57 PM
|  | PraxAce
43  
| | Join Date: 3rd September 2002 Location: Hobart, Tasmania. (And yes, there is such an animal as a Tasmanian devil)
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Reps: 23,030 (power: 45) | | Originally Posted by Aron-Ra And you will! All you've got to do is close your eyes and believe!
Just remember to keep your eyes closed though. He can't show you anything otherwise.
I do believe in fairies! I do believe in fairies! I do, I do, I do!!! (!!11!one!1)
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13th April 2005, 11:03 PM
|  | Legend
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| | Join Date: 21st September 2002 Location: United States
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Reps: 295,212,687,427,838,720 (power: 0) | | Originally Posted by Aron-Ra They said Intelligent Design was only "thinly-desguised creationism", and Demski just took the mask off. There's no attempt to disguise it anymore. It is religion, and that's all it ever was.
Mask, schmask, Demski just dropped its pants. |
13th April 2005, 11:08 PM
|  | Princess-Majestrix
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Reps: 74,559,208,991,408 (power: 74,559,209,002) | | | your so ambitious Aron
first Ramsey, then Dembski, then God eh?  Originally Posted by Aron-Ra Although he apparently didn't mean to. "Even many Christians who have been raised and indoctrinated in a secular mindset ... will say, 'Look, we're just going to have to accept the science of the day and try to make our peace with it theologically. And there is no peace theologically ... ultimately with this view. ...Christians must be prepared to combat the naturalistic worldview in every arena of life," http://www.bpnews.net/bpnews.asp?ID=20574
Then he also went on about how evolution is so weak that it shouldn't be taught at all, and that it couldn't explain biodiversity the way I know it can. I ought to debate this guy. I could open with the arguement that the universe is far too complex for anyone or anything to have designed every bit of it.
So Demski admits that he doesn't give a whit about material evidence. Because that, like every other aspect of science, is based on naturalism. And he's not providing any scientific evidence either against evolution, or for Intelligent Design either. He's only waging a religious protest to allow supernatural explanations [magic fables] to replace demonstrable, testable, measurable things that can verified to be true or proven not to be. In other words, he wants to be able to make up whatever he likes without having to subject that to the scientific method.
They said Intelligent Design was only "thinly-desguised creationism", and Demski just took the mask off. There's no attempt to disguise it anymore. It is religion, and that's all it ever was.
__________________
"Consider the lilies is the only commandment I ever obeyed." -- Emily Dickinson
In some respects, science has far surpassed religion in delivering awe. How is it that hardly any major religion has looked at science and concluded, "This is better than we thought! The universe is much bigger than out prophets said, grander, more subtle, more elegant. God must be even greater than we dreamed"? Instead they say, "No, no, no! My god is a little god, and I want him to stay that way." _-Carl Sagan |
13th April 2005, 11:09 PM
|  | Natura non facit saltum Angels Team
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| | Join Date: 16th March 2004 Location: Ft Carson, Colorado
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Reps: 37,247,279,516,221,256 (power: 37,247,279,516,236) | | All of the ID scientists and philosophers admit that their views have religious implications but it is not true that they don't use evidence or science in their arguments. Maybe you should contact this guy Aron Ra, maybe he would like to debate you:
“The Origin of Biological Information and the Higher Taxonomic Categories”, Dr. Meyer argues that no current materialistic theory of evolution can account for the origin of the information necessary to build novel animal forms. He proposes intelligent design as an alternative explanation for the origin of biological information and the higher taxa." The Origin of Biological Information and the Higher Taxonomic Categories cscinfo@discovery.org
By the way, if it is too complex to be created what are the odds that it happened through random chance?
__________________ “Gärtner, by the results of these transformation experiments, was led to oppose the opinion of those naturalists who dispute the stability of plant species and believe in a continuous evolution of vegetation. He perceives in the complete transformation of one species into another an indubitable proof that species are fixed with limits beyond which they cannot change.” (G. Mendel) |
13th April 2005, 11:12 PM
| | PraxAce
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| | Join Date: 3rd September 2002 Location: Hobart, Tasmania. (And yes, there is such an animal as a Tasmanian devil)
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Reps: 23,030 (power: 45) | | Originally Posted by mark kennedy
By the way, if it is too complex to be created what are the odds that it happened through random chance?
After the fact the odds are always 1.
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13th April 2005, 11:16 PM
|  | Thief in the Night
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| | Join Date: 30th August 2003 Location: New York
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Reps: 29,807,908,674,769,116 (power: 29,807,908,674,784) | | | That's 1/1, Mark, or 100%, just to clarify for you.
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Bushido216 |
13th April 2005, 11:18 PM
| | Natura non facit saltum Angels Team
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Reps: 37,247,279,516,221,256 (power: 37,247,279,516,236) | | Originally Posted by Bushido216 That's 1/1, Mark, or 100%, just to clarify for you.
100% certainty in science? If you believe in fairies then clap your hands. 
__________________ “Gärtner, by the results of these transformation experiments, was led to oppose the opinion of those naturalists who dispute the stability of plant species and believe in a continuous evolution of vegetation. He perceives in the complete transformation of one species into another an indubitable proof that species are fixed with limits beyond which they cannot change.” (G. Mendel) | | |
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