Forget the Moon, spacetravel doesn't exist anyway.

No human beings have left Earth orbit in the last 30 years. I don't see the relevance. The boosters required to propel a spacecraft out of Earth orbit are huge and expensive. More than that, they are no longer able to be manufactured. Remember, each one was created from the ground up. All the parts not only had to be manufactured but the machines that created them had to be manufactured from scratch as well. When the funding for the Apollo program dried up, the capability to manufacture the Saturns was either scrapped or turned to other uses. First we'd have to build the capability to manufacture the boosters, then we'd have to build the boosters. Much more expensive and much less justifiable now that we're not in a cold war with the Soviets.

I do. We went to the moon with the equivalent of 3 Commodore 64s in a non-reusable spacecraft developed with just one purpose... getting men to the moon and back. The Shuttle is a much more sophisticated spacecraft, able to take 7 astronauts into Earth orbit, land and do it all again. It does what it was designed to do, be a space truck. We have placed laboratories in orbit, spent years in space learning about the effects of the microgravity environment. We have launched probes that tell us what it is like on other planets, we have seen wonders thru the Hubble telescope and probes like Galileo, Voyager, Viking...

The only thing we haven't done is send men on missions where a machine will do the job just as well for significantly less cost. And you say this is backward?

Again, EVERYTHING must be created from scratch. The plans for the original spacecraft had changes made to them on the fly that were never recorded. The machinery doesn't exist anymore to make the original parts even if we wanted to reproduce 40 year-old technology. Lastly all this was done on the mandate of an assasinated president... in a cold war with the Soviets. Without that sort of commitment, monetarily and politically, there is no chance Apollo can be reproduced. It sounds very simple, but your argument is flawed.

Wrong. Nothing large is still available. Low Earth orbit has given us one technology solution, the Shuttle. We can't even manufacture Saturn 1b's anymore. The only remaining Saturn V booster is lying on its side in Houston Tx. Has been for 30 years. It's not gonna fly. Sure... we have spacesuits. We have the shuttle. We don't have large boosters, capsules, LEMs or anything else. Nor do we have the national will to create them with no strings on the budgets.

No, it's not. The technology is 40 years old. Even if you could find the plans, rebuild the manufacturing capability, recreate the Apollo spacecraft... would you want to? The computers were programmed with manually entered hexidecimal commands! The Soviets still have the Energia boosters... but they were never as powerful as the Saturn Vs. If you wish to leave Earth orbit, you need more than what is currently powering Soyuz.

Lastly, you forget that the United States was in a real war with the Soviet Union. If they could have proven we didn't go to the moon they surely would have. People in Hawaii watched the Trans Lunar Injection burn of Apollo 8. It was visible with the naked eye. NASA watched men go to the moon, the Soviets watched American men go to the moon and lots of average folk just like us watched them go with their own eyes.

NASA fed the media, and thru them the public, just what happened. If you wish to claim it didn't you'll need more than, "well why haven't they done it again?"

I bet the Russians didn't see any of the emissions they expected from the moon. Already afraid for their image and under pressure they didn't dare to make that public, afraid their equipment would make a laughable impression on the rest of the world.

Maybe they later found out about it, but then they would keep silent to hide the fact they lost the cold war due to being fooled in the greatest way ever in human era. Again an image protecting strategy.

You know that is the biggest BS you have typed so far.

The Russians would have posted HOAX across the front pages of Pravda and TASS would have broadcasted it 24 X 7.

But tracking and transmission monitoring was peformed at numerous other locations - Jodrell Bank etc.

Also how many people can keep a secret? I have a relative who was very, very high up in the Apollo program - this guy couldn't keep a secret with a couple of beers in him to save his life. I have met several of the astronauts. I know personally the person who is in charge of the rangefinding program using the reflectors placed on the Moon.

This hoax theory is BULL ****.

Since some people died I guess the astronauts can keep a secret.

But I would like to stay with the facts. Your guess what the Russians would have done is as good as mine. Just read Churchill's memoires to know what leaders on strategic level think and do.

Your 'argumentation' gets a bit troubling . You call a possible explanation 'BS' on the ground that in that case your personal event, the PRAVDA and TASS publication would have occurred? Some logic could be used here.

One would think you'd like to discuss on the base of facts, but you choose speculation. Why don't you admit there is no spacetravel. And then w'll discuss the propability there would have been such a thing in the past?



I

FACTS - you are the one in lunatic speculation conspiracy land.

Personal event - are you smoking crack? Are you seriously telling me that Pravda and TASS who once on a day published or aired everything that slighted the US and NATO would not have trumpeted this 'hoax' for all it was worth.

Since you are just a kid you may have forgotten but the world was a different place back in the seventies. You don't have a clue!

There is spacetravel and has been for over 40 years now.

It was impossible for anyone to go to the moon because the Moon doesn't actually exist. It's all a giant hoax.

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God: Bender, being God isn't easy. If you do too much, people get dependent on you. And if you do nothing, they lose hope. You have to use a light touch, like a safecracker or a pickpocket.
Bender: Or a guy who burns down a bar for the insurance money.
God: Yes, if he makes it look like an electrical thing. When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all.

You have yet to bring up the shuttle missons and the ISS, both o which can be seen with the naked eye. Those are space travel, they exsist, what do you say about that?

Well that's a lie. You're not the least bit interested in facts.

Who died that we don't know about? You don't have evidence, just ridiculous assertions. What you have suggested, in your original post and throughout this thread is a total fabrication. You have no evidence, you have no proof, you have nothing but a desire to mislead.

Well, you've been called on it sir. Provide evidence to support your assertions or I'll consider them withdrawn.

Why don't you admit there that there is no airtravel?
Its one thing trying to argue against evolution, but saying there is no spacetravel? I guess there would be none if the earth is flat a surrounded by firmament.

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"The intelligent beings in these regions should therefore not be surprised if they observe that their locality in the universe satisfies the conditions that are necessary for their existence. It is a bit like a rich person living in a wealthy neighborhood not seeing any poverty."
Stephen Hawking, A Brief History of Time