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  #1  
Unread 22nd February 2005, 12:15 PM
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End Time Wealth Transfer

Dear Fellow Word-Faithers (and sympathetic critics)

I would like to get your views on how you understand the End-Time Wealth Transfer Message. I realize that a number of Scriptures are used to support this. For example, some understand Jesus as teaching that we won't see His second coming until the gospel has been preached all over the world:


‘And this gospel of the Kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come’. (Matt. 24:14)




Because of this, many people believe that the body of Christ will experience an unprecedented amount of wealth to accomplish this:


Proverbs 13:22 ‘A sinners wealth is stored up for the righteous’


Proverbs 28:8 ‘He who increases his wealth by exorbitant interest amasses it for another, who will be kind to the poor

Ecclesiastes 2:26 ‘To the man who pleases him, God gives wisdom, knowledge and happiness, but to the sinner he gives the task of gathering and storing up wealth to hand it over to the one who pleases God’

Isaiah 60:5 ‘The wealth on the seas will be brought to you, to you the riches of the nations will come’

Isaiah 60:11 ‘Your gates will always stand open, they will never be shut, day or night, so that men may bring the wealth of the nations ‘

Isaiah 61:6 ‘You will feed on the wealth of nations, and in their riches you will boast’.

Isaiah 66:12 ‘I will extend peace to her like a river, and the wealth of nations like a flooding stream’.

As far a FAITH PREACHERS teaching something close to this subject, the only book I have is one by Kenneth Copeland titled The Laws of Prosperity. Copeland writes,


Many times it looks as though the ungodly men have all the money, but this is not true. There is more wealth hidden away than they will ever possess. The Bible says plainly that God will cause us to have the hidden wealth of the world, the hidden riches of the secret places (see Isaiah 45:3). The Word tells us that “…the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just” (Proverbs 13:22). Why then does the sinner have it? Because there are certain facts of financial law that will work when put to work. (p. 26)


On the other hand, the late Kenneth E. Hagin disputes the End Time Wealth Transfer teaching in his book, The Midas Touch and disputes the use of Prov. 3:21 to prove it. Unfortunately, Hagin's dispute seems to be primarily on dispensational grounds. His only argument is that he can not find anything in the New Tesatement that teaches this. So there is some dispute on this in the Faith Movement.


My questions is, what are YOUR thoughts on this? Do you know of anyone else who has taught on this subject besides the two aforementioned leaders in the Faith Movement? What are your thoughts concerning their teachings?

This inquiring mind needs to know.
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  #2  
Unread 22nd February 2005, 02:49 PM
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while reading,I was wondering where are the NT scriptures? And the answer would help.The truth in the NT allways judges the richman as someone who will NOT enter the Kingdom of God..........And would have to believe the wealth of spiritual riches is what the believer needs to focus on,not material,for we entered this world with nothing,and we will take nothing with us...........in fact they could have it,it all gets eaten with rust anyways! I would just rather wait for my 'new heaven and new earth'..........thanks
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Unread 22nd February 2005, 04:16 PM
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I've heard that taught, and I tend to agree. It takes alot of wealth(Money) to evangelize the entire world. God will put into the hands of people who are working towards this goal (telling the whole world about Jesus) all the resources they need to accomplish it. IMHO(of course).
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Unread 23rd February 2005, 09:22 AM
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Originally Posted by victoryword
Dear Fellow Word-Faithers (and sympathetic critics)

I would like to get your views on how you understand the End-Time Wealth Transfer Message. I realize that a number of Scriptures are used to support this. For example, some understand Jesus as teaching that we won't see His second coming until the gospel has been preached all over the world:


‘And this gospel of the Kingdom will be preached in the whole world as a testimony to all nations, and then the end will come’. (Matt. 24:14)




Because of this, many people believe that the body of Christ will experience an unprecedented amount of wealth to accomplish this:


Proverbs 13:22 ‘A sinners wealth is stored up for the righteous’


Proverbs 28:8 ‘He who increases his wealth by exorbitant interest amasses it for another, who will be kind to the poor

Ecclesiastes 2:26 ‘To the man who pleases him, God gives wisdom, knowledge and happiness, but to the sinner he gives the task of gathering and storing up wealth to hand it over to the one who pleases God’

Isaiah 60:5 ‘The wealth on the seas will be brought to you, to you the riches of the nations will come’

Isaiah 60:11 ‘Your gates will always stand open, they will never be shut, day or night, so that men may bring the wealth of the nations ‘

Isaiah 61:6 ‘You will feed on the wealth of nations, and in their riches you will boast’.

Isaiah 66:12 ‘I will extend peace to her like a river, and the wealth of nations like a flooding stream’.

As far a FAITH PREACHERS teaching something close to this subject, the only book I have is one by Kenneth Copeland titled The Laws of Prosperity. Copeland writes,


Many times it looks as though the ungodly men have all the money, but this is not true. There is more wealth hidden away than they will ever possess. The Bible says plainly that God will cause us to have the hidden wealth of the world, the hidden riches of the secret places (see Isaiah 45:3). The Word tells us that “…the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just” (Proverbs 13:22). Why then does the sinner have it? Because there are certain facts of financial law that will work when put to work. (p. 26)


On the other hand, the late Kenneth E. Hagin disputes the End Time Wealth Transfer teaching in his book, The Midas Touch and disputes the use of Prov. 3:21 to prove it. Unfortunately, Hagin's dispute seems to be primarily on dispensational grounds. His only argument is that he can not find anything in the New Tesatement that teaches this. So there is some dispute on this in the Faith Movement.


My questions is, what are YOUR thoughts on this? Do you know of anyone else who has taught on this subject besides the two aforementioned leaders in the Faith Movement? What are your thoughts concerning their teachings?

This inquiring mind needs to know.

I haven't heard any other teaching on this subject besides the ones you mentioned.

In my heart, I believe the wealth of the wicked is laid up for the just. I just believe that!! If you study the lives of men like Abraham and David, you see that God entrusted them with great wealth.

The word says He provides our needs according to His riches in glory. That's a lot of riches!

What are your thoughts about this. I respect your opinion.
  #5  
Unread 23rd February 2005, 10:18 AM
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Hi Faithgal

Before I give my own thoughts (which I am still formulating), allow me to first quote Dad Hagin from his book, The Midas Touch. Hagin disputes the teaching primarily on dispensational grounds:
There has been quite a bit of discussion in the last couple of years about a coming transference of wealth from the world to the Church. The idea is based on part of a scripture that says, “… the wealth of the sinner is laid up for the just” (Prov. 13:22). Apparently, some have interpreted this to mean that the day will come when God’s people will have plenty of money for the work of God – money transferred to us from the wealth of the worldly.
First of all, I really don’t see anything about this in the New Testament, especially in terms of what we are supposed to be actively believing God for. And I’m always wary about building a doctrine or basic belief on a single scripture. Jesus said, “… in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established” (Matt. 18:16). – p. 171

Hagin uses 3 John 7 to dispute the end time wealth transfer. This passage in the literal translation says, "For on behalf of His name they went out, taking nothing from the nations." Hagin seems to have a good case against it with this passage. He further writes,
Our job is not to try to get the wealth of the world. Our job is to faithfully use the wealth we already have to get the gospel out.

The Bible does teach that when the Church returns with Jesus after the Tribulation and He sets up His Millennial Kingdom on earth, we will be inheriting all of the wealth of the sinners at that time. I don’t see anywhere in the New Testament where we are supposed to be focused on getting their money now. Instead, we should be concentrating on seeking the hearts of the unsaved and faithfully using the finances we already have. – p. 172

My Thought: It is unusual for me to agree with Copeland more than Hagin when there is a disparity between the two. However, the Scriptural evidence for God's people to receive the wealth of the nations seems to outweigh the little evidence that Hagin gives in dispute of it. Furthermore, Hagin's prooftext can be interpretted differently within its context.

I am not sure that I would ever use the phrase End-Time Wealth Transfer since it is not a phrase that I can find in Scripture. What I would say inlight of the Scriptures cited is that since all the silver and gold belongs to God, He will make provision for us, including that which is in posession of the sinners. It's all His anyway.

But I am still formulating my thoughts on this.
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  #6  
Unread 24th February 2005, 02:59 AM
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You will love this, I think that our focus must be to serve the will of the Father and lift up the gospel walking in love and the anointing of God. Wealth is a natural product of being about the Fathers business, always more than enough nothing missing nothing broken. To focus on the flow of money is looking in the wrong direction, we are to be about the fathers business and the resource will come. I do think that in this time we will no be able to overtake the supply so as we work the Holy Ghost will be like a surgery aid putting the right tool in our hand as we move forward, we need not even think to want only do the will of the Father. I do agree that the ‘end-time wealth transfer’ term is uncomfortable to me for now, but when I have heard Kenneth Copland hint about this he always puts in a personal revelation view. So I have not been pulled to this topic as a potential problem.
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Unread 24th February 2005, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by Br_Rhoades
You will love this, I think that our focus must be to serve the will of the Father and lift up the gospel walking in love and the anointing of God. Wealth is a natural product of being about the Fathers business, always more than enough nothing missing nothing broken. To focus on the flow of money is looking in the wrong direction, we are to be about the fathers business and the resource will come. I do think that in this time we will no be able to overtake the supply so as we work the Holy Ghost will be like a surgery aid putting the right tool in our hand as we move forward, we need not even think to want only do the will of the Father. I do agree that the ‘end-time wealth transfer’ term is uncomfortable to me for now, but when I have heard Kenneth Copland hint about this he always puts in a personal revelation view. So I have not been pulled to this topic as a potential problem.
Excellent post. This helps me even more in formulating my own thoughts on this matter. Thanks Bro.
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Unread 24th February 2005, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by victoryword
Do you know of anyone else who has taught on this subject besides the two aforementioned leaders in the Faith Movement?
There is a book by John Avanzini, "The Wealth of the World", which deals extensively with this subject. The book was published in 1989 so maybe he was first to preach this?

I had a brief look at the book and here's a quote I came across:

The attitude that so many Christians possess today to strive and struggle just to simply "have enough" is not a scriptural motivation... It is actually a selfish motivation... Here's God's plan for your finances:

"And God is able to make all grace abound toward you (why?) that ye, always having all sufficiency in all things, may abound to every good work [being the blessing God wants you to be]." 2 Cor. 9:8
Avanzini continues to say that when the church has "abundantly more than enough", "only then can they give the significant amounts needed the the churches, television ministries, evangelists, teachers, apostles, and prophets to reach the whole world."

Bless You,

WordAndSpirit
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Unread 24th February 2005, 12:20 PM
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WordandSpirit

Thanks for that info. That was very helpful.
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  #10  
Unread 25th February 2005, 01:27 AM
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Smile

Hi VictoryWord!

Most of the teaching that I have learned from are the basics that Kenneth Copeland taught in Laws of Prosperity....and I can attest to the fact that loving God with all your heart and honoring Him first in your finances is truth. God has blessed me and made me a blessing for others as He leads me.

As far as the end-time wealth transfer goes, well, I believe it will happen as God said in His Word, to get the funding necessary to the ministries He wants it given to, to get His work done in the earth. A person who also teaches on money is Dr. Leroy Thompson Sr., and I am putting a link to his website list of books on the subject here, for anyone interested. The only thing I have heard him speak about on the end-time wealth transfer, is that it is something we cannot manipulate into existance, by our works....to just be faithful in doing the basics of tithing and giving, and to leave that part to God. At least that is a synopsis of what I think he said on one of the BVOV's recently with Kenneth. I looked in his book "You're Not Broke You Have A Seed" and couldn't find a ref. there to it anywhere.....I'm guessing here that it may be in the "Money Cometh" book or "Money with a Mission"....I have both, but they are upstairs buried in my books somewhere! LOL!

Okay, here's the link: https://ww2.micahtek.com/nexolive/nS...2700B0D022E580

I know there are alot of folks who don't like the prosperity message and think it is only a ploy by tv ministries to get money, but having believed God and done as He directed me to do, I can say that there is nothing so wonderful as being totally debt free, and to be able to be a giver, when and how God directs me to. It truly is more blessed to give than receive! Besides which, it is just plain fun!!!!!! And because I know that God loves me and will take care of me abundantly always I look forward to being able to do more as He brings the increase! There is work to be done for the Lord.....so many people need Jesus and the Love and Grace of our Awesome God! The only way it can be accomplished is with money....that is the currency of the world.....it pays for food, and needs, and Bibles and the bills created by going into all the world to preach the Gospel! That is why I desire to be wealthy....to be a blessing as God leads me too!

May the Grace and Peace of our Lord Jesus Christ be yours in abundance!!!!!!


lovesblessing
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